I have a Kawasaki Versys-x 300 (super fun bike btw). The manual recommends a 10-w40 oil. Looking over your rankings, the best oil I could get for this bike is:
15. 0W40 Mobil 1 “FS” European Car Formula
Followed by
45. 5W40 Mag 1, FMX, European Formula
and
60. 10W40 Valvoline MaxLife High Mileage
Is that correct? Should I go for the 0w40 or what do you reccomend?
Also I plan to take the bike to so some very hot places (Africa / Middle east) and the manual calls for a higher weight oil when the temperature gets hot. Is a w40 oil still ok or should I go for a w50 like the manual says? It is a water cooled engine.
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Hi Sami,
Motorcycle Manufacturers do NOT understand motor oil. They “incorrectly” think that thicker motor oil is required for adequate wear protection. So, their manuals call for the “wrong” motor oil viscosity.
The FACT is, Engineering Tests prove that viscosity has NOTHING to do with wear protection. A motor oil’s wear protection capability is determined by the oil’s factory additive package which includes the proprietary extreme pressure, anti-wear components, which have nothing to do with viscosity.
The “ideal” viscosity for most water-cooled engines, including motorcycle engines, is 5W30. See my Tech Article # 33 for all the details on that.
But, if you feel like you just have to use a 40wt motor oil, then you could use either of the first two you listed. The High Mileage motor oil should only be used in high mileage engines that have an oil leakage/oil consumption problem.
A properly operating water-cooled engine should not have any problem maintaining its operational temperature in the desired range, even in hot weather. So, thicker oil is NOT needed. In fact, thicker oil will drive UP engine oil temperature. See my Tech Article # 62 for all the details on that.
Conclusion:
I suggest you use 5W30 in all temperature weather. But, if you must, use a 40wt motor oil, in all temperature weather.
Never use a 50wt motor oil in a water-cooled engine, because it is way too thick. Oil that thick should only be used in air-cooled engines.
Is there a reason to why you haven’t tested any Motorex oils? They are very popular especially among motorcyclist. Same goes for Shell Helix, I have read that it might be the same stuff as Quaker state?
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Hi Sami,
I have not tested those motor oils because I have not had any interest from my Blog readers for Test Data on them. To my knowledge, these oils are not widely used in the USA, which would account for why I typically never hear anything about them.
But, to provide Engineering Test Data on them for any of my interested Blog readers in other parts of the world, I ordered those oils. So, I will test them in the near future.
Never believe anything people say about motor oil. Because people say things that are almost always wrong. You can only believe “test data” that was produced by properly performed tests.
Shell Helix motor oil is definitely NOT Quaker State motor oil. Shell now owns Quaker State and Pennzoil. But, Shell Helix motor oil is made from natural gas, while Quaker State motor oil is NOT.
However, Pennzoil motor oil is made from natural gas. But, Pennzoil and Shell Helix are still NOT the same. Because Shell Helix motor does NOT offer the API SP certification like Pennzoil motor oil does.
Taking your advice I ordered some 5W30 Amsoil Signature Series 100% Synthetic oil (this is the best oil on your list available in the EU). I will let you know how it works out.
I look forward to reading about the Motorex & Shell Helix oils!
Quick update on my usage with a ceramic coating (AvalonKing Armor Shield IX). The 2nd to last time I washed my car was the end of August, and the last time I washed my car was December 29th. This car has been sitting most of the time although I do drive it about 40 minutes every month until recently when I took it on a 14 hour trip (on December 13th). It is now below freezing in my region as well.
The last two washes were “$11 Elite” Kwik Trip car washes. Also after the ceramic coating was fully applied midway through July, with the coating fully cured, I have only used various automatic car washes.
During my last wash I noticed my rear window almost entirely stopped water beading/sheading, but my front window and side windows all water beaded and sheaded great. As I was exiting the wash, I also noticed my hood also did a good job at water beading and sheading. I will update as a few months pass with a video shared through Google Photos.
As far as cleanliness is concerned, the wash on the 29th did a very good job at cleaning off all the salt and dirt from the long 1200 mile road trip on the 13th. This, of course, is very subjective and I can’t do a good job at demonstrating the aid in cleaning ability that a ceramic coating can provide.
I also cannot demonstrate rinsing my car off either, the outdoor hoses are all shut off until Spring time. But on a white car with windows at 30% tint, there were absolutely no water spots after the wash.
If you would like for me to send an update around March, please reply. Also all of the “mess-up” spots where the coating wasn’t perfectly blended seemed to have worn away over time.
Sincerely,
MowerModdin
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Hi again,
Thanks for sharing your feedback on how that ceramic coating is working out for you. Please check in again here, whenever you have another update.
It’s unfortunate that your car is white, and that you cannot just rinse it off with hose and let it air dry in the sun. Because for me, it is very important to know what happens when you do that.
I had a bad experience with simply rinsing my vehicle off, the only time I tried to move up to a paint sealant, which included precisely following their curing process. When I did that, I had countless crusty white patches all over the paint when it dried in the sun after rinsing. I was able to re-wet the paint and carefully rub each one away. But, that wasted an incredible amount of time, and was THE WORST experience I have ever had with any auto paint protection product.
Then I washed the vehicle a half a dozen times back to back with the strongest dish soap I could find, which strips crude oil off of animals after a spill. That worked well enough to remove enough of the sealant, so that I could rinse the vehicle without issue.
Then I waxed the vehicle with Meguiars Boat and RV wax, which I had never tried before, though I didn’t expect anything amazing with it. And a number a number of months later, it still beads water.
But, I can’t be sure if it is because of the wax, which isn’t likely, or if it is from residual paint sealant. That whole thing has been a miserable experience.
So, I am very cautious about trying ceramic coatings which claim to “bond” with the paint. There are conflicting reports, but apparently there may be no going back, once you’ve used ceramic coatings.
I don’t want to risk having a serious problem with my Collector Cars, so I only experiment on my daily driver vehicle.
A bit dissapointed in MAG1 5w30 results. A mere 90+ sthg thousands of psi value, whereas European formula one reached 113.000 sthg.
Maybe Amsoil SS would be a better choice, but at higher price. Or at least MAG1 5w30 C3-08 European at the same price as API SP one.
I think I ‘ll switch to C3-08 for my 180,000mi Sentra B14, since I have no oil consumption at all. Since now M1 ESP 5w30 ‘ve done a great job, but its price doubled over the last 2 years in EU, reaching 12 euros/qt.
MAG 1 European F 5w30 is at 7.5 euros/qt. Oil changes at 5,000mi.
QS and many more aren’t available overseas.
Have a great new year!
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Hi again Emmanuil,
Happy New Year to you also.
I knew you would be looking with interest at 5W30 Mag 1, API SP’s disappointing results.
Yes, Mobil 1 is not worth 12 euros/qt which is around $15.00/qt US. So, I would not use it either.
I think you have a good plan going forward to use 7.5 euro/qt 5W30 Mag 1 European Formula, which is a more reasonable price.
However, I could not find 5W30 Mag 1 European Formula, with an API SP certification, to test.
yep, I knew you couldn’t find an API certification on a European market oriented oil, as long as ACEAs ar in charge here, overseas. Understandable clearly.
I feel that a lightly tuned unopened n/a engine (GA16DE non VTC) with 15% upgraded dyno peak power will do fine with an oil above 100,000psi as tested and never shut down with less than 45 to 60 min of driving.
Thank you for your immediate response and all the job you do for us.
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Hi again,
You are welcome.
I “did” find 5W30 Mag 1 European Formula motor oil with an API certification. But, the newest version I found to order, and on the Mag 1 Website, did NOT have the latest API “SP” certification. It had the older API “SN” certification, which is not important now.
Hello Rat.
In regards to using gear oil in rear differentials, thinner better than thicker? 75w90 vs 75w140? Using the same concept as motor oils? Or is thicker better because of not having its own cooling system, same as air cooled engines?
Thanks again!! Joe. S
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Hi again Joe,
No, engine oil and differential gear oil are “completely different” applications. They are apples and oranges, which cannot be directly compared.
Motor oil must have sufficient “flow” to properly lubricate all the engine components. But of course, differential gear oil does not flow. It is simply churned, splashed, and thrown.
So, viscosity recommendations for engines, do not apply to differentials. For differentials, I recommend using the viscosity called for by the manufacturer.
Hi Rat, I want to store my original used rear car axles i have for my 72 Chevy Nova SS. What do you recommend me doing to keep them rust free? Should i spray the axles or grease them? Wrap them in a strong saran wrap? Also do you what the proper way to store them? Standing up on the wheel studs straight up? You are the only guy i trust over any internet car site to ask these questions. Thank you very much. Rally
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Hi again Rally,
Thanks for the confidence you have in me.
I fully understand how you CANNOT trust “anything” that the totally unqualified and incompetent people, who have no idea what they are talking about, say on Internet Automotive Forums. Those Forums spew only worthless garbage information.
The “ideal” way to store your used rear axles would be to wipe them down so that there is no dripping, running oil left on them. You want them sort of semi-dry just from wiping them down with a dry rag or towel.
Then use a small “new” paint brush, such as a 1” wide brush, to apply a nice coating of grease over the entire axle, including the flanges and stud threads. Nothing stays on better long term than grease. And starting with them wiped down, allows the grease to stay in place well.
Then wrap them with the heaviest duty Saran Wrap you can find. And store them standing up on the wheel studs straight up, in a dry building. If you do that, you can put them back in service years later and they will be exactly the same as when you put them away in storage, with no rust.
At that time, you can wipe off the excess grease from the stud threads, and then spray the threads with brake cleaner to clean the grease off of them.
Does using a larger oil filter with correct PSI rating for by pass valve provide better filtration of motor oil? i.e. more filter media, increase oil capacity etc.
Thanks,
Mike C
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Hi again Mike,
Yes, you are correct in your thinking. The bigger the oil filter the better. As long as it doesn’t get too close to an exhaust pipe.
If you go with a larger oil filter, be sure to add enough extra oil to account for the extra oil filter volume.
Tacoma Gen 2 V6 oil filter top mounted on engine, oil filter threads facing down.
Toyota OEM Oil Filter By Pass Valve setting (unknown I could not locate)
Motorcraft By Pass Valve setting 17-23 PSI (same PSI # with smaller filter)
WIX By Pass Valve setting 8-11 PSI (same PSI # with smaller filter)
I know on your blog site you recommend Motorcraft oil filter, better quality and the position of it’s by pass valve.
My follow up question regarding larger oil filter:
Are there pros or cons with higher or lower PSI # on By Pass Valve setting?
Thanks,
Mike C
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Hi Mike,
I’m sorry that you have a Toyota with the worst possible oil filter position design. With that particular poor design, it would be best to use an oil filter with the bypass valve on the “opposite” end away from the threads. Unfortunately, the bypass valves on that end are cheap junk designs.
As a Mechanical Design Engineer, I just shake my head in disgust about all the things Toyota does wrong, or at least not as good as other brands. Toyota has a long history of poor Engineering designs compared to other Auto Makers. All I can suggest is to buy a better Engineered vehicle the next time.
The lower the oil filter bypass valve psi rating, the sooner/quicker/easier the oil will bypass the oil filter. That means an engine using an oil filter with a low bypass psi rating, will be flowing more unfiltered oil through the engine, when it is run too hard before it is sufficiently warmed up.
With all other things being equal, it is best to use an oil filter with a higher bypass valve psi rating, and run the engine easy until it is warmed up. Because that will minimize or possibly even eliminate the flow of unfiltered oil through the engine.
Closing in on 300,000 miles, no engine work & no oil consumption 🙂
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Hi again,
Yes, that inexcusably poor Toyota oil filter location design does not effect the vehicle’s longevity.
But, the people I know who have to change the oil filters on Toyota’s like that, curse Toyota every time. It is an insanely messy and time consuming job for no good reason, that most everyone hates to do.
And some people were so disgusted by Toyota doing something that wrong that is so basic, that they never bought another Toyota again after having to suffer with that poor design.
It all comes down to what you are willing to put up with, and what poor Engineering short comings you are willing to accept.
300,000 miles means a lot of aggravating oil filter changes. ☹️
I’ve been using Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 5W30 for my Toyota Yaris based on Project Farm’s testing on YouTube. But after reading your blog, I’m going to switch to QSFS 5W30. For a lay person like myself, it’s hard to know what’s best for one’s car based on all of the opinions out there, but your blog is so comprehensive and methodical I feel it’s probably wise not to ignore your testing conclusions. Thanks for all of your efforts.
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Hi there,
You are welcome. I’m glad to see that you appreciate my Engineering Test Data on motor oil wear protection capability.
For the benefit of everyone reading this Q&A Section, a motor oil’s “Wear Protection Capability” is THE MOST IMPORTANT property of any motor oil. Everything else it does, comes AFTER that. And you can only find accurate Test Data on “Wear Protection Capability” right here in my Blog.
People all over the world recognize the value of the information they can only find here. And my Blog now has more than 875,000 views, and is growing larger every day.
What makes my Blog stand head and shoulders “above” every other Automotive Source out there, is that everything I post here, is FACTUAL because it all comes from actual Engineering Testing. So, there is NO OPINION involved in anything I post. It is all the real deal. You “cannot” find better information anywhere else.
Internet Automotive and Motor Oil Forums are chock full of unqualified, uneducated, incompetent people who have no idea what they are talking about. They have NO actual Engineering Test Data to back up anything they say. They just rely on opinion, theory, speculation, hearsay, guessing, and emotion. But of course, Engineering does NOT work that way.
Incorrect and worthless information is all that comes out of those Forums. All Automotive Forums should be avoided if you are looking for the truth. But that Oil Guy Forum may well be the “worst” of them all. I’ve never seen such a large group of completely clueless people. The BS they spew would be laughable if it wasn’t so pathetically WRONG virtually all the time.
I started this Blog so that people would finally have some place to go for the Truth and the Facts about motor oil and other Technical topics. Tell all your friends about this Blog if they want to find out how to do the right thing.
Thank you for your oil facts . I realize that an oils total additive package creates the wear results but i am curious regarding the total absence of Moly in some oils such as Pentosin which ranks fairly high on your tests. I have noticed this is also the case in regards to 2 stroke Marine oil such as Mercury oil having over 1000 PPM Moly and Pennzoil having none with the zinc and phosphorus being at almost identical amounts . Zinc seems to be the hot topic but I am trying to understand the role of Moly. I have switched my cars and trucks to QS 5w 30 a year ago and have complete confidence in them thanks to your tests. Thank You again for all your work. John Todd
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Hi John,
You are welcome. And I’m glad to see that you have made good use of Engineering Test Data I provide here in my Blog.
People involved in any hot topic debate about zinc levels, are……..well, I’ll come right out and say it…..idiots. Zinc is an old, outdated, obsolete component that WAS used in motor oil in high levels back in the day.
But, zinc has been completely surpassed by 21st century proprietary (secret) components that FAR outperform zinc. The people who argue about needing high levels of zinc, are too dumb to even grasp the fact that zinc’s heyday has been gone for decades now.
My Engineering Tests have proven over and over again, that zinc levels alone, simply do NOT matter. In fact, some of the WORST performing motor oils on the market today, have the highest zinc levels. So, the whole MYTH about needing high levels of zinc has been BUSTED!!! And anyone who ignores that FACT, is an……….well, you know.
Do not get yourself all wrapped up over the moly level in motor oil. The component levels you see on any motor oil spec sheet or on any lab test print out, really mean little to nothing, regarding a motor oil’s actual wear protection capability.
Over the years I have seen every conceivable variation in components and component levels. And there is simply no connection between any listed component levels and the overall final motor oil’s actual ability to protect against wear. So, don’t waste your time trying to predict an oil’s capability based on those listed component levels. Because that simply does NOT work.
And arguing about which base oil is used also does NOT work. Because as I mentioned, it is the proprietary additive package that matters, not the base oil, nor any individual component that is listed.
That is why I perform my Engineering Torture Test on the final motor oil as it pours out of the bottle. Because the final motor oil contains every oil’s proprietary (secret) additive package, which includes the extreme pressure, anti-wear components. You can never see what those proprietary components are, nor how much is in there.
So, the only possible way to see what the TRUE capability of any motor oil is, is to put it through my Engineering Torture Test on motor oil, which allows each motor oil’s final combined formula, with all synergistic effects, to perform as well as it can.
Today’s “best performing” motor oils are BY FAR, THE BEST that have EVER been on the market. And they do that with “low” zinc levels in their formula.
And I have a standing challenge to anyone, no matter who they are, or who they may work for, to PROVE otherwise. And no one can do that!!!
To provide your engine with the best possible wear protection, all you have to do is:
– select a highly ranked motor oil from my wear protection ranking list
– that also has the latest API SP certification
– of the proper viscosity, which is 5W30 for most water-cooled, gasoline powered engines
– and change it at reasonable intervals, which is every 5,000 miles for ordinary daily driver vehicles
– then you won’t ever have to lose sleep about motor oil again
The top two motor oils I recommend are:
1. 5W30 Quaker State Full Synthetic (QSFS), API SP. You can usually find this motor oil at Walmart and Home Depot for very good prices.
2. 5W30 Amsoil Signature Series, API SP. This oil typically has to be ordered on-line, and is rather pricey.
Regarding automatic transmission fluid drain and fills, I only get 3.2 quarts out of the 8.6 quarts that is in the transmission and pan. So in reflecting on your recommendations on engine motor oils and not creating a “witches brew” which can result in worse protection, I am wondering if this also applies to ATF drain and fills? Is it best to only refill with 3.2 quarts of the same OEM ATF as is in the transmission? Meaning I can never use full synthetic aftermarket ATF’s such as your highly scoring Mobil 1 ATF unless I conduct a complete flush out of all 8.6 quarts of the old fluid? Also, what do you think of the BG Transmission Service which does a complete flush and replacement with premium ATF.
Thanks again.
Doug
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Hi Doug,
Automatic transmission ATF changes are a PITA. Because residual ATF in the transmission and in the torque converter, make it difficult.
But, I can tell you that most people don’t bother changing their ATF, and they typically don’t have any problems doing that. They usually replace the vehicle before they change the ATF. Of course that may not be ideal, but that is what usually ends up happening.
If your automatic transmission is not giving you any problems, you have essentially 3 choices:
1. Do nothing, just run the ATF as is, as long as it has sufficient fluid in it, if it has less than 100,000 miles on it.
2. Drain what you can, and top it back off with new OEM ATF that it came with, if it has less than 100,000 miles on it.
3. If it has over 100,000 miles on it, or you simply want to change to a different ATF. Here is a suggestion:
1st. Drain what you can, then refill it as needed with the desired ATF.
2nd. Run it for say 50 to 100 miles, then drain what you can, and refill it again with desired ATF.
3rd. Run it again for another 50 to 100 miles, then drain and refill it again with the desired ATF.
4th. Then one last time, drain what you can, and refill it with the desired ATF.
Yes, this choice is a lot of hassle. But, it will do a reasonably decent job of replacing all the old ATF with new ATF. The old fluid is continually diluted with the new fluid, until mostly new fluid is all that is left. That way you are not left with a witches brew.
And with this method there is no concern about flushing the transmission, which typically involves cleaning chemicals that have the potential to damage the transmission.
The cleaning chemicals involved are why I do NOT recommend engine flushes nor transmission flushes. They are basically snake oil scams designed to separate gullible people from their money, for work that is not necessary.
BG Transmission Service is very pricey, and it uses cleaning chemicals, so I do not recommend it for the reasons mentioned above.
Also do NOT accept the claim that BG ATF is premium ATF without seeing valid test data proving that claim. Remember, the Oil Industry is THE WORST for false advertising and fraudulent claims.
But, it is up to you, to make the decision for yourself.
I saw a few days ago in your Q&A that one of your readers had switched from choosing a motor oil based on Project Farm’s testing, to choosing his oil based on your Blog’s Engineering Test Data which is more comprehensive and methodical.
I can understand your Blog being the go to place for the truth about motor oil. And I now follow and use your Blog for my own oil choices. Your Blog is the best source I have ever found for motor oil information.
I quit going to car forums for info because everyone there is always arguing and it seems like all they do is guess about what to do. So I do not trust anything coming from them.
But being just an average person, I was curious why Project Farm is not a good reference for what oil to use. I thought maybe I could learn something about what is not correct there.
Thank you for all you do. We would be completely lost without your Engineering Test Data to guide us.
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Hi there,
Thanks for the kind words. I’m glad to see that you have embraced my Blog.
I have seen Project Farm’s work. The guy doing it, seems like a really good guy who means well. He goes to a lot of work putting all that together. So, I actually feel sorry for him putting in so much work that ends up being essentially worthless.
The problem is, he is clearly not a qualified Engineer. So, he doesn’t even know what he is doing is wrong. Here are some of the problems that jumped right out at me:
– He typically heats the oil up to around 450*F for two hours to measure how much oil has evaporated/burned off, which causes significant oil degradation due to thermal breakdown. That is completely unnecessary if the oil has a current API certification. Because for the oil to earn that certification, it already had to meet evaporation/burn off Industry requirements. Then he does his wear testing and other testing with oil that is partially ruined. On top that, normal street driven engines never see oil temperatures that high, nor for any extended period. So, he has no clue that he ruined everything he was trying to do after he cooked the oil, which is no longer representative of the motor oil inside an engine.
– His wear testing process is poorly conceived and crudely executed. Sometimes he heats the oil to 260*F, which is higher than normal street engines typically see, and sometimes he pours in room temperature oil right out of the bottle. Neither temperature is what street engines see. And he is not consistent, so any comparisons are worthless. Then he runs his wear test for 10 minutes as the oil temperature cools if it was heated at first, or heats up due to friction, if it was put in cold. And none of those temperature changes represents the oil in an actual street engine. And a HUGE FAIL here is that he performs ONLY ONE TEST.
But, a single test is NOT sufficient to determine a meaningful value. Performing multiple tests will provide a variety of values. If you perform enough tests, the resulting data will create scattered results, creating what is called a bell curve. That represents what is truly going on, which is NOT simply a single value. It may not be practical to perform a large number of tests for each oil. But, he should at least perform a handful of tests on each oil, and then average those results, to arrive at a more representative final value. However, he doesn’t even know he should be doing that. All this makes his whole wear test effort completely worthless.
– He does “gravity” cold flow tests with a slight incline. None of that testing has any value. Because oil cold flow is fine, if the oil has a current API certification, and the proper viscosity is being used. Plus, oil inside an engine is pressure fed by the oil pump. An engine is NOT gravity fed. So, his test here is worthless.
– He gives grading points for having a lot of cleaning agents and TBN acid neutralizer from Lab Reports. But, that doesn’t matter as long as a motor oil has a current API certification, which means it meets those Industry requirements, and if the oil is changed at at a reasonable interval. So, his grading points here are worthless.
– He also gives grading points for wear protection component levels from Lab Reports. But, that also does not matter, because none of those values will predict an oil’s wear protection capability, which has been proven over and over again in Engineering Wear Protection Capability Tests. What truly matters is the oil’s proprietary (secret) additive package which contains the extreme pressure, anti-wear components, which do NOT show up on a spec sheet or Lab Test report. But, he is clearly not aware of any of that. So, his grading points here are wortless.
– In conclusion, even though the Project Farm guy is trying his best to share information, he is clueless that none of his information is worth sharing. I could NOT find anything he does, to be valid information. So, what he provides, is sadly just more Internet garbage.
As I have said many times, if you want the Facts and the Truth, you can always come here to my Blog to find that information, which cannot be found anywhere else.
Thanks for the quick response. I obviously had a false impression that getting away from oil forums and car forums, and instead looking at oil tests would be fine.
Now I see that even Internet oil tests can be just as bad as those Internet forums. I had no idea. Thanks for filling me in. Everything you said makes perfect sense.
From now on, I will just come to your Blog when I need any technical information.
Sorry to bother you again, but I have one more question. I stumbled across the Ford Tremor Pickup Forum, and skimmed through it a little. When they were taking about Shell Rotella T6 diesel oil, I read that thread for a bit. And that is where my question came up.
One guy said that Rotella T6 oil doesn’t have very good shear strength, while other oil brands do, but he was going to use the Rotella anyway. Now I’m confused. Why would someone knowingly use a bad oil instead of a good oil? What am I missing?
Thanks
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Hi again,
It’s fine to check in here again. You are not a bother.
He probably saw how 5W40 Shell Rotella T6 Diesel oil performed here in my Blog. Because “accurate” Engineering Test Data on motor oil Wear Protection Capability can only be found here in my Blog.
A motor oil’s shear strength limit, film strength limit, ultimate failure limit, boundary lubrication limit, and load carrying capacity limit, all mean the same thing, and are represented by the psi value that I post for each motor I test.
I have performed my Engineering Torture Test on 261 different motor oils so far. And Diesel Oil performance is always way “lower” than the better performing gasoline engine oils.
Here are a few good performing Diesel oils compared to Rotella T6. The “Higher” the PSI value, the “Better” the Wear Protection Capability:
# 117 15W40 John Deere Plus-50 II Heavy Duty Diesel Oil, 91,273 psi
As you can see, Rotella T6 is an EXTREMELY poor performing Diesel Oil, that I would never recommend using.
So, to answer your question, you are not missing anything. It is the guy who is “knowingly” using a pathetic Diesel oil, who has the problem. A person would have to be completely stupid to do what he is doing.
You have to buy motor oil anyway, so why not buy good motor oil while you are at it, since it is for your engine? That is a no-brainer, but he obviously falls short in that category. Not everyone is smart enough to come in out of the rain, as they say.
Many engines can probably get away with using poor performing oils, if they are not stressed too hard. But, over time and miles they will suffer more wear. And if stressed hard, they could suffer damage because poor performing oils provide a very low “margin of safety”, to put it in Engineering terms.
I always recommend using a highly ranked, high psi motor oil which will provide your engine with the BEST possible protection, while providing the HIGHEST possible “margin of safety”.
What this guy is doing is typical of the lunacy found on Oil Forums and Automotive Forums all over the Internet.
There is a fool born every minute. So, some people are their own worst enemy.
Parting words:
“Life is hard. Life is even harder if you are stupid”.
hi 540, went to valvoline they told me not to use 5w30 in my ford! the place i used to get oilzum going out of business, and my mechanic uses 5w30 synthetics I have never heard of in all the cars he fixes think thats ok?
Happy New Year and thankyou.
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Hi Bob,
Happy New Year to you too.
I need more information before I can answer your question.
1. What is the year, model and engine of your Ford, that Valvoline said not to use 5W30 in?
2. What Valvoline did you go to, one of their Quicky Oil Change places?
3. What was the person’s job at Valvoline who told you not to use 5W30?
4. What oil did Valvoline say you should use?
5. I need to know what the name is of the 5W30 oils that your Mechanic uses, that you have never heard of. Then I can answer if I think they are OK or not.
Please provide an answer to each numbered question.
Thank you for your prompt reply.As you said, “This Blog is the ONLY place you can find accurate and reliable Test Data like that.”
From your test data it seems that Motul 75W90 Gear 300 is not the best gear oil in the world. Your test results for the Amsoil 75W90 still left me greatly shocked and disappointed, and it gave me new concerns as I use it on all of my and my friend’s AT transmissions：”Amsoil Signature Series Fuel-Efficient Synthetic Automatic Transmission Fluid” (blue cap).Based on the regularity of testing it could be a very good oil or a very bad oil, and the idea of a gamble akin to a gamble made me feel strongly uneasy.
1. Is it possible to use 75W-140 instead of 75W-90 for an ordinary open rear differential?
There is no exact requirement for this on my vehicle manual. If Amsoil 75W-140 cannot be used I will buy Valvoline 80W-90 right away.
2. Should I replace the Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF in the AT transmission?
Please let me know what you think.
Sincerely yours
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Hi again,
You are welcome.
1. I recommend using the factory specified differential viscosity. If you use a significantly thicker viscosity differential gear oil, here are some concerns about doing that:
– Thicker gear oil will increase viscous drag.
– Thicker gear oil could slightly reduce vehicle performance because of the extra drag.
– Thicker gear oil could slightly increase vehicle fuel consumption because of the extra drag.
– Thicker gear oil could experience increased temperature.
– Thicker gear oil could experience increased foaming.
So, I suggest you keep using Motul 75W90 since it has been working well for you, or switch to Valvoline 80W90.
2. I would need test data to indicate if it would be necessary to change the Amsoil ATF. So, I ordered Amsoil Fuel Efficient ATF (blue cap) and Amsoil Multi-Vehicle ATF (red cap). I also ordered Amsoil Manual Transmission Fluid.
And I will test them as soon as I have time. This will provide additional Engineering Test Data for my Tech Article #55, which will further help my Blog readers make the best choices for their needs.
Hi 540, I have a 4cyl 20 valve flat tappet engine 165 hp red line of 10,500. manual calls for OW-30, was wondering if you could test the new OW-30 LX euro Quaker State which replaced the Ultimate Durability, curious to see how it stacks up to it brother QS 5W-30 and the OW-30 amsoil signature series. Lots of cold winter starts ere in Canada. Love your blog and thanks for all the hard work you do to keep us in the know. Chris
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Hi Chris,
I’m glad to see that you love my Blog.
I don’t see that particular oil listed on the Quaker State website. Plus, it was not coming up available for ordering on Google.
I did find a spec sheet for it though. And it is only API SN, which is two generations behind Quaker State’s new API SP Full Synthetic line.
It appears that oil is no longer produced. So, there would be no point in testing it, even if I could get my hands on some.
If you need 0W30, I suggest you just use the 0W30 Amsoil Signature Series Synthetic motor oil.
Morning I love reading your blog.
What do you think would be most affected in a engine from using a low psi oil on your list if you pulled a engine apart after a 75,000 miles or x amount of hours to test for wear?
Would it be cylinder walls cross hatches, pistons, crank or other parts?
It could be a car, truck, tractor, or generator engine.
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Hi there,
I’m glad to see that you love reading my Blog.
It’s hard to say in general which engine components would suffer the most wear from using poor performing low psi motor oil. Because there are so many variables, such as:
– Is the engine a flat tappet or roller engine?
– Does the engine have a high volume oil pump or a standard volume oil pump?
– Is the engine high performance or low performance?
– Does the engine use a carburetor, port injection, or direct injection?
– Is the engine naturally aspirated, or Supercharged, or Turbocharged?
– Is the engine run hard or run easy in general, “after” it is fully warmed up?
– Is it run hard or run easy “while” it is warming up?
– Is the engine run long enough after it is fully warmed up, to fully burn off all normal condensation?
– Has it used quality fuel or cheap no name fuel?
– What oil viscosity has been used?
– Has it’s oil been changed at reasonable intervals, or was it subjected to extended drain intervals?
– Has it been overheated?
– How long does it sit between the times it is run?
– Is it run in extremely dirty conditions?
– Is it run in extremely cold or extremely hot conditions?
– Etc, etc, can affect which engine components could suffer the most wear.
Remember, “THE” most important property of any motor oil, is its ability to prevent wear. And the higher its psi value, the better its wear protection capability.
So, it doesn’t take a Rocket Scientist to understand that the higher the oil’s psi value, the less engine wear will take place.
Since you have to buy motor oil anyway, it’s a no brainer to buy an oil chosen from my Wear Protection Ranking List that has a high psi value, while you are at it. After all, it’s your engine, so wouldn’t you want to keep it in the best condition possible?
And when it comes to prices, the number 1 best performing motor oil today, which is 5W30 Quaker State Full Synthetic, API SP, has incredibly low prices at Walmart.
Hi 540 RAT
I Asked very simple question the amsoil engineers – they didn’t know the answer. Question was what is the best of your oils that would give me longest “PROTECTION AGAINST WEAR” for my 1997 Audi 2.8 with 7000 miles only since 2015 new (not rebuild) old stock engine was installed? They hesitated and gave no clear answer.
According to car manual oil chart I can use xW30 oil but to avoid high speed long drives. My stock oil temps go to 270-280F on 100F day on 4000rpm with stock oil cooler (I avoid that). So I “listened” to the chart and selected xW40 oil. I picked the new Zrod 10w40 which I wait for you to test as the 10w30 Zrod is not “thick enough” or so I thought. Now that I see #1 and #2 oil in your chart I start to rethink. I used the Zrod mainly for the advertised rust protection inhibitors for my long winter storage (5 months). But I have no idea if this rust protection is better than another good oils of other brands.
I do 300- to max 600 miles a year and change oil 1-2 times for such a short run and reuse the oil in another older car i have. I still look forward to put the best protection oil so I consider 5w30 Quaker or the 5w30 Amsoil you tested but so much looking forward for the 10w40 Zrod. I normally pamper the car and don’t do any 100F day temperatures on highway so oil remains at max 230F. So quest still remains for me to have this car run another 50 years with minimal wear if possible. Disregard of cost. They told that Zddp in Zrod would hard the cats – I will change cats every year if I have to as long as engine is protected. I read the whole website and I know zddp isnt the answer to it all so too much in the Zrod I know could have some metal damage long term so I don’t use the Zrod only for the high Zinc. I know its not that simple. Just like I said earlier for winter protection against rust
Would it be ok to use the #1 or #2 on your chart in my engine? (I saw they loose little bit strength at above 275F so I might be OK?)
Second question is the gear oil I use Amsoil 75W90 manual trans oil GL4 (not the severe gear oil) And since their severe gear oil looks like doesn’t stand its reputation I am thinking their 75w90 manual trans oil might too be off the specs. What is the chance we see test on this one or what oil for the manual transmission you would recommend?
Thanks a lot for your work
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Hi Georgi,
It is very unlikely that you were able to talk to an Amsoil Engineer. They do not talk to customers. It is almost certain that you spoke with an Amsoil Customer Service Representative, though they may have told you they were an Engineer.
And Customer Service Representatives from just about every Company, are mostly worthless, and they don’t tell the truth. They are in the same untrustworthy group as used car Salesmen.
For your application, I suggest using the best motor oils on the market, which are 5W30 Quaker State Full Synthetic, API SP, or 5W30 Amsoil Signature Series, API SP. And they will NOT damage your cats.
For a manual transmission, you could use Valvoline Synchromesh Manual Transmission Fluid, which performed well in my Engineering Torture Test on lubricating oils. Or if you are not in a big hurry, I will be testing Amsoil Synthetic Synchromesh Transmission Fluid for manual transmissions, in the near future. So, you could choose between those two fluids.
QSFS 5w30 is my go to oil, thanks to you! I also was a fan of the Chevron Supreme 5w30 for a conventional, but recently they changed to a synthetic blend. I know you are super busy, but do you have plans to test the new Chevron Supreme? Reason I ask is that I have been able to find it for $12-14 per 5qt jug at Walmart, so quite a bargain!
Thanks for all you share with us,
Jamie
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Hi Jamie,
No, I do not have any plans to test the new 5W30 Chevron Supreme synthetic blend. It is simply not possible for me to test every motor oil on the market. I am already incredibly overloaded with oils in line for testing.
I suggest you stay with 5W30 Quaker State Full Synthetic, API SP, which is the number 1 motor oil on the market today. And you also can get very good prices on it at Walmart and Home Depot.
Dear 540 Rat-
There has been a huge push in the Mercedes scene (especially with m156 engines with High wear in the top end) about using liqui Moly Ceratec and MoS2 additives. I used the ceratec and noticed my oil temps being 30 degrees cooler on average comparable days/conditions…for years. I would love to see you using your method to test this.
Thanks
Ac
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Hi there,
You must be new to my Blog, since you are not aware of my position on aftermarket motor oil additives.
MB does NOT recommend using those additives, nor does any other Automaker.
US Automakers go to great lengths for the smallest improvement in fuel mileage to meet strict C.A.F.E. (Corporate Average Fuel Economy) standards. But, they do NOT use nor recommend those additives to help.
Oil Companies also do NOT recommend using any aftermarket additives.
So, you have to ask yourself, if those additives are as good as is claimed, why don’t any Auto Makers or Oil Companies use them? The answer should be obvious to any sensible person.
Keep in mind that aftermarket motor oil additive Companies are THE WORST for false advertising and fraudulent claims. And in just one example, I caught aftermarket zinc additive Companies red handed. They claimed greatly “improved” wear protection. But, multiple Engineering Tests proved that zinc additives actually greatly “reduced” wear protection, making all the oils tested, far worse than they were to begin with.
I do NOT recommend using any aftermarket motor oil additives. Because they upset an oil’s carefully balanced factory additive package, making the oil WORSE OVERALL than it was to begin with, no matter what they may or may not do for the oil’s wear protection capability. You can run into unintended and undesirable consequences that will make you regret using them. So, I no longer waste my time and effort testing aftermarket additives.
If the motor oil you are using needs help, you have chosen the WRONG motor oil. So, you should select a high performance, highly ranked, high psi motor oil from my Wear Protection Ranking List. Those motor oils will NOT need any help. Therefore, you won’t need to spend any extra unnecessary money to help those oils. And your engine will be very well protected. Then you won’t have to lose sleep over motor oil again.
You must be referring to people on MB Internet Forums pushing those additives. You need to be aware that most people on Automotive Internet Forums, are NOT Mechanical Engineers, they are unqualified, they are incompetent, they have no idea what they are talking about, and they only rely on opinion, speculation, hearsay, theory, guessing and emotion, rather than Engineering facts. Even so, many people on those Forums “think” they are experts which is laughable.
Of course, that is NOT how Engineering works. And spending the extra money on those additives, makes oil changes way more expensive than they need to be.
On top of that, if you look at the history of those additives, there are “mixed” results from people who have tried them. Some people say they like them, though much of that is likely from the power of suggestion due to unreliable Internet Forum chatter. Because they are usually commenting on what they think or feel. And there is typically little to no actual data to support what they think or feel. Claims of reduced oil temperature and/or increased gas mileage is about as good as their data gets. Some have had to use electronic instrumentation to tell if there was any improvement in noise or vibration, which indicates there was no real “noticeable” improvement in those areas. Some say they can’t tell any difference. And some say they have had problems, ranging from minor to serious, after putting those additives in. That’s just “some” of the typical BS coming from Automotive Forums. So, about the only thing you can count on those additives always doing, is separating gullible buyers from their money. Buyer beware…
Because of all the Internet Forum insanity, I always tell my Blog readers that they should do themselves a favor and STOP going to Internet Oil and Automotive Forums. Because they spew nothing but wrong and/or misleading info.
If you are looking for the “Truth” and the “Facts”, you can only find them here in my Blog, where you will find actual Engineering Test Data that cannot be found anywhere else.
I recommend you forget all that aftermarket additive nonsense, and choose one of the TOP TWO, spectacular, record setting, High Performance motor oils from my Engineering Torture Test on motor oil, which are:
#1. 5W30 Quaker State Full Synthetic, API SP
or
#2. 5W30 Amsoil Signature Series Synthetic, API SP
These two are BY FAR THE BEST performing motor oils on the market today.
In fact, they are so good, that I use the #1 Quaker State myself, in ALL my own vehicles, from stock to High Performance. And you can even get very good prices on it at Walmart and Home Depot.
If you want, feel free to share this response with MB people who are being pushed down the wrong path with those additives.
Thank you sir. I will wait to see how this GL4 synchromesh “runs on freedom” fluid perform and will decided based on that. I value your answer and also would like to know about that new Zrod 10w40 for future test. I can send one fresh bottle if you would like. Its not like its thousand of $ but you probably spend thousand buying and testing all fluids. Thanks and take care
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Hi again,
Just so you know, I have no future plans to test any additional XW40 motor oils. Those oils are thicker than ideal for most water-cooled, gasoline powered engines.
So, I cannot justify spending my very limited available time, to test oils that generally should not be used.
Been reading your info for many years – much appreciated. Have a new MBenz SUV coming next month. Live in FLA. I see QS Full Syn is the best from your testing. MB spec’s a EURO flavor of the QS Full Syn 5W-30 as approved for this engine (turbo inline 6 #M256). Would this EURO 5W-30 oil be comparable to the wear data you got from the QS non-EURO flavor, or is there a better choice for the M256 engine? TIA brother. — Bob
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Hi Bob,
Thanks for being one of my long term Blog readers. And I’m glad to see that you appreciate the info you find here.
I have to perform my Engineering Torture Test on every motor oil to determine what its wear protection capability truly is. Because different lines of motor oil, even from the same brand, are not formulated the same. So, their performance is also not the same. And even the same line of oil from the same brand can perform differently from one viscosity to the next. It just depends on how each particular oil is specifically formulated. Some viscosities may have more expensive, better components than other viscosities, So, you just never know until you test them.
The same question came up last week about 5W30 QSFS Euro. So, the same answer is, I could not find it on QS’s website. And it would not come up for ordering on Google. I did find a spec sheet on it, though it was not called FS, and it had an API SN certification, which is “two” generations behind the current API SP certification. So, it apparently is no longer produced. And therefore would not be worth testing, even if some was found somewhere.
The QS website does show 5W40 QSFS Euro, API SP. But, 5W40 is thicker than ideal, so I do NOT recommend it, even though some Euro Automakers call for it.
Automakers are NOT always correct. And they are often wrong about motor oil viscosity because they don’t really understand it. Yes, that is a true statement.
Case in point: I have been calling for “5W30” to be used in most water-cooled, gasoline powered engines for years now. Because it the ideal viscosity which provides the best protection.
But, Ford had been calling for “5W20” across the board for years, even in their High Performance V-8 Mustangs. Then in 2021 they switched to calling for “5W30” in their High Performance V-8 Mustangs. So now, Ford is on the same page with me. Did they read my Blog, or did they arrive at the same conclusion as me, on their own? Who knows, but either way, we are both calling for the same viscosity when oil is under stressful loads from engines making impressive horsepower.
The best motor oil choices for your new MB are:
#1. 5W30 Quaker State Full Synthetic, API SP
or
#2. 5W30 Amsoil Signature Series, API SP.
I use 5W30 Quaker State Full Synthetic, API SP, which THE BEST motor oil on the market today, in my own Supercharged, 600 HP Muscle Car, as well as other stock and High Performance vehicles.
So, you can use it also in your MB Turbo 6 cyl engine. You do NOT have to use a Euro motor oil in your Euro vehicle, even if it is called for. You may be afraid to use something not called for by your Owner’s Manual, but I would do it in a heartbeat, because I know that is THE BEST motor oil on the market today. Just change the oil at reasonable intervals such as every 5,000 miles for a normal daily driver vehicle. And you will be good to go. Also, never practice that extended drain interval nonsense.
Your engine would not know or care if it did not have so-called Euro motor oil in it. And your Dealer would never be able to determine which oil you had in the engine. So, there is no warranty concern about using the best motor oil on the market, which again is 5W30 QSFS, API SP.
I want to thank you for all the research work you have done and posted. It has been most helpful. I have noticed in my Champion Portable Gen. manual that they call for 10w30 automotive oil. Correct me if I am wrong but I’m under the impression that lawn mower oil is better suited for air-cooled small engines. Would you please comment on this? Thank you again.
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Hi William,
I’m glad to see that you have found the information here in my Blog to be helpful.
You have the wrong idea about so-called Lawn Mower engine oil. It is not better suited for anything. It is nothing special at all. It is just affordable 30wt, 5W30, or 10W30 motor oil with a label slapped on it referencing Lawn Mowers. It does not know or care what engine it is being put in.
And it has one BIG problem. These small air-cooled engine makers don’t understand motor oil viscosity very well at all. And a 30wt hot rated motor oil is simply too thin for air-cooled engines.
Here’s why:
Air cooled engines cannot control their oil temperature very well at all, especially when worked hard in hot weather. Keep in mind that motor oil gets thinner and thinner as it gets hotter and hotter. So, that means a 30wt hot rated motor oil can become so dangerously thin, that it can no longer protect the engine, which will result in catastrophic engine seizure. I have seen this happen in person with my own eyes. In Engineering, we call that insufficient “Margin of Safety”.
If small engine makers knew what they were doing, they would NOT specify motor oil as thin as a 30wt hot rated oil.
I recommend using thicker XW50 or XW60 motor oils, which will provide a MUCH HIGHER Engineering “Margin of Safety” for hard working air-cooled engines, even in hot weather. These thicker oils start out thick enough, that even after they thin out from high temperatures, they are still thick enough to continue protecting an air-cooled engine.
The better Automotive motor oils are in fact, the best motor oils on the market, though most of them are often also too thin for air-cooled engines.
As it stands, I recommend 20W50 Valvoline VR1 Racing Oil, conventional in the silver bottle, for all air-cooled engines. It provides excellent protection, and I have used it myself for many years in air-cooled engines.
I have a Tech Article in-work for air-cooled engines. I will be testing a range of thicker oils to determine which are the good choice options available today. I should have it posted here in my Blog within the next couple of months.
540 RAT - Tech Facts, NOT Myths 
Thank you sir. Straight talk and I’m grateful for it!
Have a great New Year.
Respectfully,
Mike C
Dear sir RAT,
I have a Kawasaki Versys-x 300 (super fun bike btw). The manual recommends a 10-w40 oil. Looking over your rankings, the best oil I could get for this bike is:
15. 0W40 Mobil 1 “FS” European Car Formula
Followed by
45. 5W40 Mag 1, FMX, European Formula
and
60. 10W40 Valvoline MaxLife High Mileage
Is that correct? Should I go for the 0w40 or what do you reccomend?
Also I plan to take the bike to so some very hot places (Africa / Middle east) and the manual calls for a higher weight oil when the temperature gets hot. Is a w40 oil still ok or should I go for a w50 like the manual says? It is a water cooled engine.
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Hi Sami,
Motorcycle Manufacturers do NOT understand motor oil. They “incorrectly” think that thicker motor oil is required for adequate wear protection. So, their manuals call for the “wrong” motor oil viscosity.
The FACT is, Engineering Tests prove that viscosity has NOTHING to do with wear protection. A motor oil’s wear protection capability is determined by the oil’s factory additive package which includes the proprietary extreme pressure, anti-wear components, which have nothing to do with viscosity.
The “ideal” viscosity for most water-cooled engines, including motorcycle engines, is 5W30. See my Tech Article # 33 for all the details on that.
But, if you feel like you just have to use a 40wt motor oil, then you could use either of the first two you listed. The High Mileage motor oil should only be used in high mileage engines that have an oil leakage/oil consumption problem.
A properly operating water-cooled engine should not have any problem maintaining its operational temperature in the desired range, even in hot weather. So, thicker oil is NOT needed. In fact, thicker oil will drive UP engine oil temperature. See my Tech Article # 62 for all the details on that.
Conclusion:
I suggest you use 5W30 in all temperature weather. But, if you must, use a 40wt motor oil, in all temperature weather.
Never use a 50wt motor oil in a water-cooled engine, because it is way too thick. Oil that thick should only be used in air-cooled engines.
Take care,
540 RAT
Another question mr Rat,
Is there a reason to why you haven’t tested any Motorex oils? They are very popular especially among motorcyclist. Same goes for Shell Helix, I have read that it might be the same stuff as Quaker state?
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Hi Sami,
I have not tested those motor oils because I have not had any interest from my Blog readers for Test Data on them. To my knowledge, these oils are not widely used in the USA, which would account for why I typically never hear anything about them.
But, to provide Engineering Test Data on them for any of my interested Blog readers in other parts of the world, I ordered those oils. So, I will test them in the near future.
Never believe anything people say about motor oil. Because people say things that are almost always wrong. You can only believe “test data” that was produced by properly performed tests.
Shell Helix motor oil is definitely NOT Quaker State motor oil. Shell now owns Quaker State and Pennzoil. But, Shell Helix motor oil is made from natural gas, while Quaker State motor oil is NOT.
However, Pennzoil motor oil is made from natural gas. But, Pennzoil and Shell Helix are still NOT the same. Because Shell Helix motor does NOT offer the API SP certification like Pennzoil motor oil does.
Take care,
540 RAT
Taking your advice I ordered some 5W30 Amsoil Signature Series 100% Synthetic oil (this is the best oil on your list available in the EU). I will let you know how it works out.
I look forward to reading about the Motorex & Shell Helix oils!
Thanks and Happy New Year!
Hello 540 RAT,
Quick update on my usage with a ceramic coating (AvalonKing Armor Shield IX). The 2nd to last time I washed my car was the end of August, and the last time I washed my car was December 29th. This car has been sitting most of the time although I do drive it about 40 minutes every month until recently when I took it on a 14 hour trip (on December 13th). It is now below freezing in my region as well.
The last two washes were “$11 Elite” Kwik Trip car washes. Also after the ceramic coating was fully applied midway through July, with the coating fully cured, I have only used various automatic car washes.
During my last wash I noticed my rear window almost entirely stopped water beading/sheading, but my front window and side windows all water beaded and sheaded great. As I was exiting the wash, I also noticed my hood also did a good job at water beading and sheading. I will update as a few months pass with a video shared through Google Photos.
As far as cleanliness is concerned, the wash on the 29th did a very good job at cleaning off all the salt and dirt from the long 1200 mile road trip on the 13th. This, of course, is very subjective and I can’t do a good job at demonstrating the aid in cleaning ability that a ceramic coating can provide.
I also cannot demonstrate rinsing my car off either, the outdoor hoses are all shut off until Spring time. But on a white car with windows at 30% tint, there were absolutely no water spots after the wash.
If you would like for me to send an update around March, please reply. Also all of the “mess-up” spots where the coating wasn’t perfectly blended seemed to have worn away over time.
Sincerely,
MowerModdin
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Hi again,
Thanks for sharing your feedback on how that ceramic coating is working out for you. Please check in again here, whenever you have another update.
It’s unfortunate that your car is white, and that you cannot just rinse it off with hose and let it air dry in the sun. Because for me, it is very important to know what happens when you do that.
I had a bad experience with simply rinsing my vehicle off, the only time I tried to move up to a paint sealant, which included precisely following their curing process. When I did that, I had countless crusty white patches all over the paint when it dried in the sun after rinsing. I was able to re-wet the paint and carefully rub each one away. But, that wasted an incredible amount of time, and was THE WORST experience I have ever had with any auto paint protection product.
Then I washed the vehicle a half a dozen times back to back with the strongest dish soap I could find, which strips crude oil off of animals after a spill. That worked well enough to remove enough of the sealant, so that I could rinse the vehicle without issue.
Then I waxed the vehicle with Meguiars Boat and RV wax, which I had never tried before, though I didn’t expect anything amazing with it. And a number a number of months later, it still beads water.
But, I can’t be sure if it is because of the wax, which isn’t likely, or if it is from residual paint sealant. That whole thing has been a miserable experience.
So, I am very cautious about trying ceramic coatings which claim to “bond” with the paint. There are conflicting reports, but apparently there may be no going back, once you’ve used ceramic coatings.
I don’t want to risk having a serious problem with my Collector Cars, so I only experiment on my daily driver vehicle.
Take care,
540 RAT
Hi RAT and best wishes for a happy new year,
A bit dissapointed in MAG1 5w30 results. A mere 90+ sthg thousands of psi value, whereas European formula one reached 113.000 sthg.
Maybe Amsoil SS would be a better choice, but at higher price. Or at least MAG1 5w30 C3-08 European at the same price as API SP one.
I think I ‘ll switch to C3-08 for my 180,000mi Sentra B14, since I have no oil consumption at all. Since now M1 ESP 5w30 ‘ve done a great job, but its price doubled over the last 2 years in EU, reaching 12 euros/qt.
MAG 1 European F 5w30 is at 7.5 euros/qt. Oil changes at 5,000mi.
QS and many more aren’t available overseas.
Have a great new year!
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Hi again Emmanuil,
Happy New Year to you also.
I knew you would be looking with interest at 5W30 Mag 1, API SP’s disappointing results.
Yes, Mobil 1 is not worth 12 euros/qt which is around $15.00/qt US. So, I would not use it either.
I think you have a good plan going forward to use 7.5 euro/qt 5W30 Mag 1 European Formula, which is a more reasonable price.
However, I could not find 5W30 Mag 1 European Formula, with an API SP certification, to test.
I hope you have a great New Year as well.
Take care,
540 RAT
Hi RAT,
yep, I knew you couldn’t find an API certification on a European market oriented oil, as long as ACEAs ar in charge here, overseas. Understandable clearly.
I feel that a lightly tuned unopened n/a engine (GA16DE non VTC) with 15% upgraded dyno peak power will do fine with an oil above 100,000psi as tested and never shut down with less than 45 to 60 min of driving.
Thank you for your immediate response and all the job you do for us.
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Hi again,
You are welcome.
I “did” find 5W30 Mag 1 European Formula motor oil with an API certification. But, the newest version I found to order, and on the Mag 1 Website, did NOT have the latest API “SP” certification. It had the older API “SN” certification, which is not important now.
Take care,
540 RAT
Hello Rat.
In regards to using gear oil in rear differentials, thinner better than thicker? 75w90 vs 75w140? Using the same concept as motor oils? Or is thicker better because of not having its own cooling system, same as air cooled engines?
Thanks again!! Joe. S
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Hi again Joe,
No, engine oil and differential gear oil are “completely different” applications. They are apples and oranges, which cannot be directly compared.
Motor oil must have sufficient “flow” to properly lubricate all the engine components. But of course, differential gear oil does not flow. It is simply churned, splashed, and thrown.
So, viscosity recommendations for engines, do not apply to differentials. For differentials, I recommend using the viscosity called for by the manufacturer.
Take care,
540 RAT
Hi Rat, I want to store my original used rear car axles i have for my 72 Chevy Nova SS. What do you recommend me doing to keep them rust free? Should i spray the axles or grease them? Wrap them in a strong saran wrap? Also do you what the proper way to store them? Standing up on the wheel studs straight up? You are the only guy i trust over any internet car site to ask these questions. Thank you very much. Rally
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Hi again Rally,
Thanks for the confidence you have in me.
I fully understand how you CANNOT trust “anything” that the totally unqualified and incompetent people, who have no idea what they are talking about, say on Internet Automotive Forums. Those Forums spew only worthless garbage information.
The “ideal” way to store your used rear axles would be to wipe them down so that there is no dripping, running oil left on them. You want them sort of semi-dry just from wiping them down with a dry rag or towel.
Then use a small “new” paint brush, such as a 1” wide brush, to apply a nice coating of grease over the entire axle, including the flanges and stud threads. Nothing stays on better long term than grease. And starting with them wiped down, allows the grease to stay in place well.
Then wrap them with the heaviest duty Saran Wrap you can find. And store them standing up on the wheel studs straight up, in a dry building. If you do that, you can put them back in service years later and they will be exactly the same as when you put them away in storage, with no rust.
At that time, you can wipe off the excess grease from the stud threads, and then spray the threads with brake cleaner to clean the grease off of them.
Take care,
540 RAT
Rat,
Does using a larger oil filter with correct PSI rating for by pass valve provide better filtration of motor oil? i.e. more filter media, increase oil capacity etc.
Thanks,
Mike C
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Hi again Mike,
Yes, you are correct in your thinking. The bigger the oil filter the better. As long as it doesn’t get too close to an exhaust pipe.
If you go with a larger oil filter, be sure to add enough extra oil to account for the extra oil filter volume.
Take care,
540 RAT
Sir,
Thanks for quick reply. Grateful.
Tacoma Gen 2 V6 oil filter top mounted on engine, oil filter threads facing down.
Toyota OEM Oil Filter By Pass Valve setting (unknown I could not locate)
Motorcraft By Pass Valve setting 17-23 PSI (same PSI # with smaller filter)
WIX By Pass Valve setting 8-11 PSI (same PSI # with smaller filter)
I know on your blog site you recommend Motorcraft oil filter, better quality and the position of it’s by pass valve.
My follow up question regarding larger oil filter:
Are there pros or cons with higher or lower PSI # on By Pass Valve setting?
Thanks,
Mike C
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Hi Mike,
I’m sorry that you have a Toyota with the worst possible oil filter position design. With that particular poor design, it would be best to use an oil filter with the bypass valve on the “opposite” end away from the threads. Unfortunately, the bypass valves on that end are cheap junk designs.
As a Mechanical Design Engineer, I just shake my head in disgust about all the things Toyota does wrong, or at least not as good as other brands. Toyota has a long history of poor Engineering designs compared to other Auto Makers. All I can suggest is to buy a better Engineered vehicle the next time.
The lower the oil filter bypass valve psi rating, the sooner/quicker/easier the oil will bypass the oil filter. That means an engine using an oil filter with a low bypass psi rating, will be flowing more unfiltered oil through the engine, when it is run too hard before it is sufficiently warmed up.
With all other things being equal, it is best to use an oil filter with a higher bypass valve psi rating, and run the engine easy until it is warmed up. Because that will minimize or possibly even eliminate the flow of unfiltered oil through the engine.
Take care,
540 RAT
Received Thank you sir!
Closing in on 300,000 miles, no engine work & no oil consumption 🙂
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Hi again,
Yes, that inexcusably poor Toyota oil filter location design does not effect the vehicle’s longevity.
But, the people I know who have to change the oil filters on Toyota’s like that, curse Toyota every time. It is an insanely messy and time consuming job for no good reason, that most everyone hates to do.
And some people were so disgusted by Toyota doing something that wrong that is so basic, that they never bought another Toyota again after having to suffer with that poor design.
It all comes down to what you are willing to put up with, and what poor Engineering short comings you are willing to accept.
300,000 miles means a lot of aggravating oil filter changes. ☹️
Take care,
540 RAT
I’ve been using Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 5W30 for my Toyota Yaris based on Project Farm’s testing on YouTube. But after reading your blog, I’m going to switch to QSFS 5W30. For a lay person like myself, it’s hard to know what’s best for one’s car based on all of the opinions out there, but your blog is so comprehensive and methodical I feel it’s probably wise not to ignore your testing conclusions. Thanks for all of your efforts.
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Hi there,
You are welcome. I’m glad to see that you appreciate my Engineering Test Data on motor oil wear protection capability.
For the benefit of everyone reading this Q&A Section, a motor oil’s “Wear Protection Capability” is THE MOST IMPORTANT property of any motor oil. Everything else it does, comes AFTER that. And you can only find accurate Test Data on “Wear Protection Capability” right here in my Blog.
People all over the world recognize the value of the information they can only find here. And my Blog now has more than 875,000 views, and is growing larger every day.
What makes my Blog stand head and shoulders “above” every other Automotive Source out there, is that everything I post here, is FACTUAL because it all comes from actual Engineering Testing. So, there is NO OPINION involved in anything I post. It is all the real deal. You “cannot” find better information anywhere else.
Internet Automotive and Motor Oil Forums are chock full of unqualified, uneducated, incompetent people who have no idea what they are talking about. They have NO actual Engineering Test Data to back up anything they say. They just rely on opinion, theory, speculation, hearsay, guessing, and emotion. But of course, Engineering does NOT work that way.
Incorrect and worthless information is all that comes out of those Forums. All Automotive Forums should be avoided if you are looking for the truth. But that Oil Guy Forum may well be the “worst” of them all. I’ve never seen such a large group of completely clueless people. The BS they spew would be laughable if it wasn’t so pathetically WRONG virtually all the time.
I started this Blog so that people would finally have some place to go for the Truth and the Facts about motor oil and other Technical topics. Tell all your friends about this Blog if they want to find out how to do the right thing.
Take care,
540 RAT
Thank you for your oil facts . I realize that an oils total additive package creates the wear results but i am curious regarding the total absence of Moly in some oils such as Pentosin which ranks fairly high on your tests. I have noticed this is also the case in regards to 2 stroke Marine oil such as Mercury oil having over 1000 PPM Moly and Pennzoil having none with the zinc and phosphorus being at almost identical amounts . Zinc seems to be the hot topic but I am trying to understand the role of Moly. I have switched my cars and trucks to QS 5w 30 a year ago and have complete confidence in them thanks to your tests. Thank You again for all your work. John Todd
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Hi John,
You are welcome. And I’m glad to see that you have made good use of Engineering Test Data I provide here in my Blog.
People involved in any hot topic debate about zinc levels, are……..well, I’ll come right out and say it…..idiots. Zinc is an old, outdated, obsolete component that WAS used in motor oil in high levels back in the day.
But, zinc has been completely surpassed by 21st century proprietary (secret) components that FAR outperform zinc. The people who argue about needing high levels of zinc, are too dumb to even grasp the fact that zinc’s heyday has been gone for decades now.
My Engineering Tests have proven over and over again, that zinc levels alone, simply do NOT matter. In fact, some of the WORST performing motor oils on the market today, have the highest zinc levels. So, the whole MYTH about needing high levels of zinc has been BUSTED!!! And anyone who ignores that FACT, is an……….well, you know.
Do not get yourself all wrapped up over the moly level in motor oil. The component levels you see on any motor oil spec sheet or on any lab test print out, really mean little to nothing, regarding a motor oil’s actual wear protection capability.
Over the years I have seen every conceivable variation in components and component levels. And there is simply no connection between any listed component levels and the overall final motor oil’s actual ability to protect against wear. So, don’t waste your time trying to predict an oil’s capability based on those listed component levels. Because that simply does NOT work.
And arguing about which base oil is used also does NOT work. Because as I mentioned, it is the proprietary additive package that matters, not the base oil, nor any individual component that is listed.
That is why I perform my Engineering Torture Test on the final motor oil as it pours out of the bottle. Because the final motor oil contains every oil’s proprietary (secret) additive package, which includes the extreme pressure, anti-wear components. You can never see what those proprietary components are, nor how much is in there.
So, the only possible way to see what the TRUE capability of any motor oil is, is to put it through my Engineering Torture Test on motor oil, which allows each motor oil’s final combined formula, with all synergistic effects, to perform as well as it can.
Today’s “best performing” motor oils are BY FAR, THE BEST that have EVER been on the market. And they do that with “low” zinc levels in their formula.
And I have a standing challenge to anyone, no matter who they are, or who they may work for, to PROVE otherwise. And no one can do that!!!
To provide your engine with the best possible wear protection, all you have to do is:
– select a highly ranked motor oil from my wear protection ranking list
– that also has the latest API SP certification
– of the proper viscosity, which is 5W30 for most water-cooled, gasoline powered engines
– and change it at reasonable intervals, which is every 5,000 miles for ordinary daily driver vehicles
– then you won’t ever have to lose sleep about motor oil again
The top two motor oils I recommend are:
1. 5W30 Quaker State Full Synthetic (QSFS), API SP. You can usually find this motor oil at Walmart and Home Depot for very good prices.
2. 5W30 Amsoil Signature Series, API SP. This oil typically has to be ordered on-line, and is rather pricey.
Take care,
540 RAT
Hello 540 RAT,
Regarding automatic transmission fluid drain and fills, I only get 3.2 quarts out of the 8.6 quarts that is in the transmission and pan. So in reflecting on your recommendations on engine motor oils and not creating a “witches brew” which can result in worse protection, I am wondering if this also applies to ATF drain and fills? Is it best to only refill with 3.2 quarts of the same OEM ATF as is in the transmission? Meaning I can never use full synthetic aftermarket ATF’s such as your highly scoring Mobil 1 ATF unless I conduct a complete flush out of all 8.6 quarts of the old fluid? Also, what do you think of the BG Transmission Service which does a complete flush and replacement with premium ATF.
Thanks again.
Doug
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Hi Doug,
Automatic transmission ATF changes are a PITA. Because residual ATF in the transmission and in the torque converter, make it difficult.
But, I can tell you that most people don’t bother changing their ATF, and they typically don’t have any problems doing that. They usually replace the vehicle before they change the ATF. Of course that may not be ideal, but that is what usually ends up happening.
If your automatic transmission is not giving you any problems, you have essentially 3 choices:
1. Do nothing, just run the ATF as is, as long as it has sufficient fluid in it, if it has less than 100,000 miles on it.
2. Drain what you can, and top it back off with new OEM ATF that it came with, if it has less than 100,000 miles on it.
3. If it has over 100,000 miles on it, or you simply want to change to a different ATF. Here is a suggestion:
1st. Drain what you can, then refill it as needed with the desired ATF.
2nd. Run it for say 50 to 100 miles, then drain what you can, and refill it again with desired ATF.
3rd. Run it again for another 50 to 100 miles, then drain and refill it again with the desired ATF.
4th. Then one last time, drain what you can, and refill it with the desired ATF.
Yes, this choice is a lot of hassle. But, it will do a reasonably decent job of replacing all the old ATF with new ATF. The old fluid is continually diluted with the new fluid, until mostly new fluid is all that is left. That way you are not left with a witches brew.
And with this method there is no concern about flushing the transmission, which typically involves cleaning chemicals that have the potential to damage the transmission.
The cleaning chemicals involved are why I do NOT recommend engine flushes nor transmission flushes. They are basically snake oil scams designed to separate gullible people from their money, for work that is not necessary.
BG Transmission Service is very pricey, and it uses cleaning chemicals, so I do not recommend it for the reasons mentioned above.
Also do NOT accept the claim that BG ATF is premium ATF without seeing valid test data proving that claim. Remember, the Oil Industry is THE WORST for false advertising and fraudulent claims.
But, it is up to you, to make the decision for yourself.
Take care,
540 RAT
Hi 540 Rat
I saw a few days ago in your Q&A that one of your readers had switched from choosing a motor oil based on Project Farm’s testing, to choosing his oil based on your Blog’s Engineering Test Data which is more comprehensive and methodical.
I can understand your Blog being the go to place for the truth about motor oil. And I now follow and use your Blog for my own oil choices. Your Blog is the best source I have ever found for motor oil information.
I quit going to car forums for info because everyone there is always arguing and it seems like all they do is guess about what to do. So I do not trust anything coming from them.
But being just an average person, I was curious why Project Farm is not a good reference for what oil to use. I thought maybe I could learn something about what is not correct there.
Thank you for all you do. We would be completely lost without your Engineering Test Data to guide us.
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Hi there,
Thanks for the kind words. I’m glad to see that you have embraced my Blog.
I have seen Project Farm’s work. The guy doing it, seems like a really good guy who means well. He goes to a lot of work putting all that together. So, I actually feel sorry for him putting in so much work that ends up being essentially worthless.
The problem is, he is clearly not a qualified Engineer. So, he doesn’t even know what he is doing is wrong. Here are some of the problems that jumped right out at me:
– He typically heats the oil up to around 450*F for two hours to measure how much oil has evaporated/burned off, which causes significant oil degradation due to thermal breakdown. That is completely unnecessary if the oil has a current API certification. Because for the oil to earn that certification, it already had to meet evaporation/burn off Industry requirements. Then he does his wear testing and other testing with oil that is partially ruined. On top that, normal street driven engines never see oil temperatures that high, nor for any extended period. So, he has no clue that he ruined everything he was trying to do after he cooked the oil, which is no longer representative of the motor oil inside an engine.
– His wear testing process is poorly conceived and crudely executed. Sometimes he heats the oil to 260*F, which is higher than normal street engines typically see, and sometimes he pours in room temperature oil right out of the bottle. Neither temperature is what street engines see. And he is not consistent, so any comparisons are worthless. Then he runs his wear test for 10 minutes as the oil temperature cools if it was heated at first, or heats up due to friction, if it was put in cold. And none of those temperature changes represents the oil in an actual street engine. And a HUGE FAIL here is that he performs ONLY ONE TEST.
But, a single test is NOT sufficient to determine a meaningful value. Performing multiple tests will provide a variety of values. If you perform enough tests, the resulting data will create scattered results, creating what is called a bell curve. That represents what is truly going on, which is NOT simply a single value. It may not be practical to perform a large number of tests for each oil. But, he should at least perform a handful of tests on each oil, and then average those results, to arrive at a more representative final value. However, he doesn’t even know he should be doing that. All this makes his whole wear test effort completely worthless.
– He does “gravity” cold flow tests with a slight incline. None of that testing has any value. Because oil cold flow is fine, if the oil has a current API certification, and the proper viscosity is being used. Plus, oil inside an engine is pressure fed by the oil pump. An engine is NOT gravity fed. So, his test here is worthless.
– He gives grading points for having a lot of cleaning agents and TBN acid neutralizer from Lab Reports. But, that doesn’t matter as long as a motor oil has a current API certification, which means it meets those Industry requirements, and if the oil is changed at at a reasonable interval. So, his grading points here are worthless.
– He also gives grading points for wear protection component levels from Lab Reports. But, that also does not matter, because none of those values will predict an oil’s wear protection capability, which has been proven over and over again in Engineering Wear Protection Capability Tests. What truly matters is the oil’s proprietary (secret) additive package which contains the extreme pressure, anti-wear components, which do NOT show up on a spec sheet or Lab Test report. But, he is clearly not aware of any of that. So, his grading points here are wortless.
– In conclusion, even though the Project Farm guy is trying his best to share information, he is clueless that none of his information is worth sharing. I could NOT find anything he does, to be valid information. So, what he provides, is sadly just more Internet garbage.
As I have said many times, if you want the Facts and the Truth, you can always come here to my Blog to find that information, which cannot be found anywhere else.
Take care,
540 RAT
Hi RAT,
Thanks for the quick response. I obviously had a false impression that getting away from oil forums and car forums, and instead looking at oil tests would be fine.
Now I see that even Internet oil tests can be just as bad as those Internet forums. I had no idea. Thanks for filling me in. Everything you said makes perfect sense.
From now on, I will just come to your Blog when I need any technical information.
Thanks again
Hi again 540 RAT
Sorry to bother you again, but I have one more question. I stumbled across the Ford Tremor Pickup Forum, and skimmed through it a little. When they were taking about Shell Rotella T6 diesel oil, I read that thread for a bit. And that is where my question came up.
One guy said that Rotella T6 oil doesn’t have very good shear strength, while other oil brands do, but he was going to use the Rotella anyway. Now I’m confused. Why would someone knowingly use a bad oil instead of a good oil? What am I missing?
Thanks
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Hi again,
It’s fine to check in here again. You are not a bother.
He probably saw how 5W40 Shell Rotella T6 Diesel oil performed here in my Blog. Because “accurate” Engineering Test Data on motor oil Wear Protection Capability can only be found here in my Blog.
A motor oil’s shear strength limit, film strength limit, ultimate failure limit, boundary lubrication limit, and load carrying capacity limit, all mean the same thing, and are represented by the psi value that I post for each motor I test.
I have performed my Engineering Torture Test on 261 different motor oils so far. And Diesel Oil performance is always way “lower” than the better performing gasoline engine oils.
Here are a few good performing Diesel oils compared to Rotella T6. The “Higher” the PSI value, the “Better” the Wear Protection Capability:
# 117 15W40 John Deere Plus-50 II Heavy Duty Diesel Oil, 91,273 psi
# 122 0W40 Amsoil Max-Duty Signature Series Diesel Oil, 90,307 psi
# 136 15W40 Amsoil Max-Duty Signature Series Diesel Oil, 87,881 psi
# 139 5W40 Amsoil Max-Duty Signature Series Diesel Oil, 87,154 psi
# 225 5W40 Shell Rotella T6 Heavy Duty Diesel Oil, 67,804 psi
As you can see, Rotella T6 is an EXTREMELY poor performing Diesel Oil, that I would never recommend using.
So, to answer your question, you are not missing anything. It is the guy who is “knowingly” using a pathetic Diesel oil, who has the problem. A person would have to be completely stupid to do what he is doing.
You have to buy motor oil anyway, so why not buy good motor oil while you are at it, since it is for your engine? That is a no-brainer, but he obviously falls short in that category. Not everyone is smart enough to come in out of the rain, as they say.
Many engines can probably get away with using poor performing oils, if they are not stressed too hard. But, over time and miles they will suffer more wear. And if stressed hard, they could suffer damage because poor performing oils provide a very low “margin of safety”, to put it in Engineering terms.
I always recommend using a highly ranked, high psi motor oil which will provide your engine with the BEST possible protection, while providing the HIGHEST possible “margin of safety”.
What this guy is doing is typical of the lunacy found on Oil Forums and Automotive Forums all over the Internet.
There is a fool born every minute. So, some people are their own worst enemy.
Parting words:
“Life is hard. Life is even harder if you are stupid”.
Take care,
540 RAT
hi 540, went to valvoline they told me not to use 5w30 in my ford! the place i used to get oilzum going out of business, and my mechanic uses 5w30 synthetics I have never heard of in all the cars he fixes think thats ok?
Happy New Year and thankyou.
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Hi Bob,
Happy New Year to you too.
I need more information before I can answer your question.
1. What is the year, model and engine of your Ford, that Valvoline said not to use 5W30 in?
2. What Valvoline did you go to, one of their Quicky Oil Change places?
3. What was the person’s job at Valvoline who told you not to use 5W30?
4. What oil did Valvoline say you should use?
5. I need to know what the name is of the 5W30 oils that your Mechanic uses, that you have never heard of. Then I can answer if I think they are OK or not.
Please provide an answer to each numbered question.
Take care,
540 RAT
Hi, 540 Rat，
Thank you for your prompt reply.As you said, “This Blog is the ONLY place you can find accurate and reliable Test Data like that.”
From your test data it seems that Motul 75W90 Gear 300 is not the best gear oil in the world. Your test results for the Amsoil 75W90 still left me greatly shocked and disappointed, and it gave me new concerns as I use it on all of my and my friend’s AT transmissions：”Amsoil Signature Series Fuel-Efficient Synthetic Automatic Transmission Fluid” (blue cap).Based on the regularity of testing it could be a very good oil or a very bad oil, and the idea of a gamble akin to a gamble made me feel strongly uneasy.
1. Is it possible to use 75W-140 instead of 75W-90 for an ordinary open rear differential?
There is no exact requirement for this on my vehicle manual. If Amsoil 75W-140 cannot be used I will buy Valvoline 80W-90 right away.
2. Should I replace the Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF in the AT transmission?
Please let me know what you think.
Sincerely yours
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Hi again,
You are welcome.
1. I recommend using the factory specified differential viscosity. If you use a significantly thicker viscosity differential gear oil, here are some concerns about doing that:
– Thicker gear oil will increase viscous drag.
– Thicker gear oil could slightly reduce vehicle performance because of the extra drag.
– Thicker gear oil could slightly increase vehicle fuel consumption because of the extra drag.
– Thicker gear oil could experience increased temperature.
– Thicker gear oil could experience increased foaming.
So, I suggest you keep using Motul 75W90 since it has been working well for you, or switch to Valvoline 80W90.
2. I would need test data to indicate if it would be necessary to change the Amsoil ATF. So, I ordered Amsoil Fuel Efficient ATF (blue cap) and Amsoil Multi-Vehicle ATF (red cap). I also ordered Amsoil Manual Transmission Fluid.
And I will test them as soon as I have time. This will provide additional Engineering Test Data for my Tech Article #55, which will further help my Blog readers make the best choices for their needs.
Take care,
540 RAT
Hi 540, I have a 4cyl 20 valve flat tappet engine 165 hp red line of 10,500. manual calls for OW-30, was wondering if you could test the new OW-30 LX euro Quaker State which replaced the Ultimate Durability, curious to see how it stacks up to it brother QS 5W-30 and the OW-30 amsoil signature series. Lots of cold winter starts ere in Canada. Love your blog and thanks for all the hard work you do to keep us in the know. Chris
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Hi Chris,
I’m glad to see that you love my Blog.
I don’t see that particular oil listed on the Quaker State website. Plus, it was not coming up available for ordering on Google.
I did find a spec sheet for it though. And it is only API SN, which is two generations behind Quaker State’s new API SP Full Synthetic line.
It appears that oil is no longer produced. So, there would be no point in testing it, even if I could get my hands on some.
If you need 0W30, I suggest you just use the 0W30 Amsoil Signature Series Synthetic motor oil.
Take care,
540 RAT
Morning I love reading your blog.
What do you think would be most affected in a engine from using a low psi oil on your list if you pulled a engine apart after a 75,000 miles or x amount of hours to test for wear?
Would it be cylinder walls cross hatches, pistons, crank or other parts?
It could be a car, truck, tractor, or generator engine.
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Hi there,
I’m glad to see that you love reading my Blog.
It’s hard to say in general which engine components would suffer the most wear from using poor performing low psi motor oil. Because there are so many variables, such as:
– Is the engine a flat tappet or roller engine?
– Does the engine have a high volume oil pump or a standard volume oil pump?
– Is the engine high performance or low performance?
– Does the engine use a carburetor, port injection, or direct injection?
– Is the engine naturally aspirated, or Supercharged, or Turbocharged?
– Is the engine run hard or run easy in general, “after” it is fully warmed up?
– Is it run hard or run easy “while” it is warming up?
– Is the engine run long enough after it is fully warmed up, to fully burn off all normal condensation?
– Has it used quality fuel or cheap no name fuel?
– What oil viscosity has been used?
– Has it’s oil been changed at reasonable intervals, or was it subjected to extended drain intervals?
– Has it been overheated?
– How long does it sit between the times it is run?
– Is it run in extremely dirty conditions?
– Is it run in extremely cold or extremely hot conditions?
– Etc, etc, can affect which engine components could suffer the most wear.
Remember, “THE” most important property of any motor oil, is its ability to prevent wear. And the higher its psi value, the better its wear protection capability.
So, it doesn’t take a Rocket Scientist to understand that the higher the oil’s psi value, the less engine wear will take place.
Since you have to buy motor oil anyway, it’s a no brainer to buy an oil chosen from my Wear Protection Ranking List that has a high psi value, while you are at it. After all, it’s your engine, so wouldn’t you want to keep it in the best condition possible?
And when it comes to prices, the number 1 best performing motor oil today, which is 5W30 Quaker State Full Synthetic, API SP, has incredibly low prices at Walmart.
Take care,
540 RAT
Hi 540 RAT
I Asked very simple question the amsoil engineers – they didn’t know the answer. Question was what is the best of your oils that would give me longest “PROTECTION AGAINST WEAR” for my 1997 Audi 2.8 with 7000 miles only since 2015 new (not rebuild) old stock engine was installed? They hesitated and gave no clear answer.
According to car manual oil chart I can use xW30 oil but to avoid high speed long drives. My stock oil temps go to 270-280F on 100F day on 4000rpm with stock oil cooler (I avoid that). So I “listened” to the chart and selected xW40 oil. I picked the new Zrod 10w40 which I wait for you to test as the 10w30 Zrod is not “thick enough” or so I thought. Now that I see #1 and #2 oil in your chart I start to rethink. I used the Zrod mainly for the advertised rust protection inhibitors for my long winter storage (5 months). But I have no idea if this rust protection is better than another good oils of other brands.
I do 300- to max 600 miles a year and change oil 1-2 times for such a short run and reuse the oil in another older car i have. I still look forward to put the best protection oil so I consider 5w30 Quaker or the 5w30 Amsoil you tested but so much looking forward for the 10w40 Zrod. I normally pamper the car and don’t do any 100F day temperatures on highway so oil remains at max 230F. So quest still remains for me to have this car run another 50 years with minimal wear if possible. Disregard of cost. They told that Zddp in Zrod would hard the cats – I will change cats every year if I have to as long as engine is protected. I read the whole website and I know zddp isnt the answer to it all so too much in the Zrod I know could have some metal damage long term so I don’t use the Zrod only for the high Zinc. I know its not that simple. Just like I said earlier for winter protection against rust
Would it be ok to use the #1 or #2 on your chart in my engine? (I saw they loose little bit strength at above 275F so I might be OK?)
Second question is the gear oil I use Amsoil 75W90 manual trans oil GL4 (not the severe gear oil) And since their severe gear oil looks like doesn’t stand its reputation I am thinking their 75w90 manual trans oil might too be off the specs. What is the chance we see test on this one or what oil for the manual transmission you would recommend?
Thanks a lot for your work
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Hi Georgi,
It is very unlikely that you were able to talk to an Amsoil Engineer. They do not talk to customers. It is almost certain that you spoke with an Amsoil Customer Service Representative, though they may have told you they were an Engineer.
And Customer Service Representatives from just about every Company, are mostly worthless, and they don’t tell the truth. They are in the same untrustworthy group as used car Salesmen.
For your application, I suggest using the best motor oils on the market, which are 5W30 Quaker State Full Synthetic, API SP, or 5W30 Amsoil Signature Series, API SP. And they will NOT damage your cats.
For a manual transmission, you could use Valvoline Synchromesh Manual Transmission Fluid, which performed well in my Engineering Torture Test on lubricating oils. Or if you are not in a big hurry, I will be testing Amsoil Synthetic Synchromesh Transmission Fluid for manual transmissions, in the near future. So, you could choose between those two fluids.
Take care,
540 RAT
Hi Rat 540,
QSFS 5w30 is my go to oil, thanks to you! I also was a fan of the Chevron Supreme 5w30 for a conventional, but recently they changed to a synthetic blend. I know you are super busy, but do you have plans to test the new Chevron Supreme? Reason I ask is that I have been able to find it for $12-14 per 5qt jug at Walmart, so quite a bargain!
Thanks for all you share with us,
Jamie
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Hi Jamie,
No, I do not have any plans to test the new 5W30 Chevron Supreme synthetic blend. It is simply not possible for me to test every motor oil on the market. I am already incredibly overloaded with oils in line for testing.
I suggest you stay with 5W30 Quaker State Full Synthetic, API SP, which is the number 1 motor oil on the market today. And you also can get very good prices on it at Walmart and Home Depot.
Take care,
540 RAT
Dear 540 Rat-
There has been a huge push in the Mercedes scene (especially with m156 engines with High wear in the top end) about using liqui Moly Ceratec and MoS2 additives. I used the ceratec and noticed my oil temps being 30 degrees cooler on average comparable days/conditions…for years. I would love to see you using your method to test this.
Thanks
Ac
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Hi there,
You must be new to my Blog, since you are not aware of my position on aftermarket motor oil additives.
MB does NOT recommend using those additives, nor does any other Automaker.
US Automakers go to great lengths for the smallest improvement in fuel mileage to meet strict C.A.F.E. (Corporate Average Fuel Economy) standards. But, they do NOT use nor recommend those additives to help.
Oil Companies also do NOT recommend using any aftermarket additives.
So, you have to ask yourself, if those additives are as good as is claimed, why don’t any Auto Makers or Oil Companies use them? The answer should be obvious to any sensible person.
Keep in mind that aftermarket motor oil additive Companies are THE WORST for false advertising and fraudulent claims. And in just one example, I caught aftermarket zinc additive Companies red handed. They claimed greatly “improved” wear protection. But, multiple Engineering Tests proved that zinc additives actually greatly “reduced” wear protection, making all the oils tested, far worse than they were to begin with.
I do NOT recommend using any aftermarket motor oil additives. Because they upset an oil’s carefully balanced factory additive package, making the oil WORSE OVERALL than it was to begin with, no matter what they may or may not do for the oil’s wear protection capability. You can run into unintended and undesirable consequences that will make you regret using them. So, I no longer waste my time and effort testing aftermarket additives.
If the motor oil you are using needs help, you have chosen the WRONG motor oil. So, you should select a high performance, highly ranked, high psi motor oil from my Wear Protection Ranking List. Those motor oils will NOT need any help. Therefore, you won’t need to spend any extra unnecessary money to help those oils. And your engine will be very well protected. Then you won’t have to lose sleep over motor oil again.
You must be referring to people on MB Internet Forums pushing those additives. You need to be aware that most people on Automotive Internet Forums, are NOT Mechanical Engineers, they are unqualified, they are incompetent, they have no idea what they are talking about, and they only rely on opinion, speculation, hearsay, theory, guessing and emotion, rather than Engineering facts. Even so, many people on those Forums “think” they are experts which is laughable.
Of course, that is NOT how Engineering works. And spending the extra money on those additives, makes oil changes way more expensive than they need to be.
On top of that, if you look at the history of those additives, there are “mixed” results from people who have tried them. Some people say they like them, though much of that is likely from the power of suggestion due to unreliable Internet Forum chatter. Because they are usually commenting on what they think or feel. And there is typically little to no actual data to support what they think or feel. Claims of reduced oil temperature and/or increased gas mileage is about as good as their data gets. Some have had to use electronic instrumentation to tell if there was any improvement in noise or vibration, which indicates there was no real “noticeable” improvement in those areas. Some say they can’t tell any difference. And some say they have had problems, ranging from minor to serious, after putting those additives in. That’s just “some” of the typical BS coming from Automotive Forums. So, about the only thing you can count on those additives always doing, is separating gullible buyers from their money. Buyer beware…
Because of all the Internet Forum insanity, I always tell my Blog readers that they should do themselves a favor and STOP going to Internet Oil and Automotive Forums. Because they spew nothing but wrong and/or misleading info.
If you are looking for the “Truth” and the “Facts”, you can only find them here in my Blog, where you will find actual Engineering Test Data that cannot be found anywhere else.
I recommend you forget all that aftermarket additive nonsense, and choose one of the TOP TWO, spectacular, record setting, High Performance motor oils from my Engineering Torture Test on motor oil, which are:
#1. 5W30 Quaker State Full Synthetic, API SP
or
#2. 5W30 Amsoil Signature Series Synthetic, API SP
These two are BY FAR THE BEST performing motor oils on the market today.
In fact, they are so good, that I use the #1 Quaker State myself, in ALL my own vehicles, from stock to High Performance. And you can even get very good prices on it at Walmart and Home Depot.
If you want, feel free to share this response with MB people who are being pushed down the wrong path with those additives.
Take care,
540 RAT
Thank you sir. I will wait to see how this GL4 synchromesh “runs on freedom” fluid perform and will decided based on that. I value your answer and also would like to know about that new Zrod 10w40 for future test. I can send one fresh bottle if you would like. Its not like its thousand of $ but you probably spend thousand buying and testing all fluids. Thanks and take care
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Hi again,
Just so you know, I have no future plans to test any additional XW40 motor oils. Those oils are thicker than ideal for most water-cooled, gasoline powered engines.
So, I cannot justify spending my very limited available time, to test oils that generally should not be used.
Take care,
540 RAT
Dr. Rat –
Been reading your info for many years – much appreciated. Have a new MBenz SUV coming next month. Live in FLA. I see QS Full Syn is the best from your testing. MB spec’s a EURO flavor of the QS Full Syn 5W-30 as approved for this engine (turbo inline 6 #M256). Would this EURO 5W-30 oil be comparable to the wear data you got from the QS non-EURO flavor, or is there a better choice for the M256 engine? TIA brother. — Bob
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Hi Bob,
Thanks for being one of my long term Blog readers. And I’m glad to see that you appreciate the info you find here.
I have to perform my Engineering Torture Test on every motor oil to determine what its wear protection capability truly is. Because different lines of motor oil, even from the same brand, are not formulated the same. So, their performance is also not the same. And even the same line of oil from the same brand can perform differently from one viscosity to the next. It just depends on how each particular oil is specifically formulated. Some viscosities may have more expensive, better components than other viscosities, So, you just never know until you test them.
The same question came up last week about 5W30 QSFS Euro. So, the same answer is, I could not find it on QS’s website. And it would not come up for ordering on Google. I did find a spec sheet on it, though it was not called FS, and it had an API SN certification, which is “two” generations behind the current API SP certification. So, it apparently is no longer produced. And therefore would not be worth testing, even if some was found somewhere.
The QS website does show 5W40 QSFS Euro, API SP. But, 5W40 is thicker than ideal, so I do NOT recommend it, even though some Euro Automakers call for it.
Automakers are NOT always correct. And they are often wrong about motor oil viscosity because they don’t really understand it. Yes, that is a true statement.
Case in point: I have been calling for “5W30” to be used in most water-cooled, gasoline powered engines for years now. Because it the ideal viscosity which provides the best protection.
But, Ford had been calling for “5W20” across the board for years, even in their High Performance V-8 Mustangs. Then in 2021 they switched to calling for “5W30” in their High Performance V-8 Mustangs. So now, Ford is on the same page with me. Did they read my Blog, or did they arrive at the same conclusion as me, on their own? Who knows, but either way, we are both calling for the same viscosity when oil is under stressful loads from engines making impressive horsepower.
The best motor oil choices for your new MB are:
#1. 5W30 Quaker State Full Synthetic, API SP
or
#2. 5W30 Amsoil Signature Series, API SP.
I use 5W30 Quaker State Full Synthetic, API SP, which THE BEST motor oil on the market today, in my own Supercharged, 600 HP Muscle Car, as well as other stock and High Performance vehicles.
So, you can use it also in your MB Turbo 6 cyl engine. You do NOT have to use a Euro motor oil in your Euro vehicle, even if it is called for. You may be afraid to use something not called for by your Owner’s Manual, but I would do it in a heartbeat, because I know that is THE BEST motor oil on the market today. Just change the oil at reasonable intervals such as every 5,000 miles for a normal daily driver vehicle. And you will be good to go. Also, never practice that extended drain interval nonsense.
Your engine would not know or care if it did not have so-called Euro motor oil in it. And your Dealer would never be able to determine which oil you had in the engine. So, there is no warranty concern about using the best motor oil on the market, which again is 5W30 QSFS, API SP.
Take care,
540 RAT
I want to thank you for all the research work you have done and posted. It has been most helpful. I have noticed in my Champion Portable Gen. manual that they call for 10w30 automotive oil. Correct me if I am wrong but I’m under the impression that lawn mower oil is better suited for air-cooled small engines. Would you please comment on this? Thank you again.
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Hi William,
I’m glad to see that you have found the information here in my Blog to be helpful.
You have the wrong idea about so-called Lawn Mower engine oil. It is not better suited for anything. It is nothing special at all. It is just affordable 30wt, 5W30, or 10W30 motor oil with a label slapped on it referencing Lawn Mowers. It does not know or care what engine it is being put in.
And it has one BIG problem. These small air-cooled engine makers don’t understand motor oil viscosity very well at all. And a 30wt hot rated motor oil is simply too thin for air-cooled engines.
Here’s why:
Air cooled engines cannot control their oil temperature very well at all, especially when worked hard in hot weather. Keep in mind that motor oil gets thinner and thinner as it gets hotter and hotter. So, that means a 30wt hot rated motor oil can become so dangerously thin, that it can no longer protect the engine, which will result in catastrophic engine seizure. I have seen this happen in person with my own eyes. In Engineering, we call that insufficient “Margin of Safety”.
If small engine makers knew what they were doing, they would NOT specify motor oil as thin as a 30wt hot rated oil.
I recommend using thicker XW50 or XW60 motor oils, which will provide a MUCH HIGHER Engineering “Margin of Safety” for hard working air-cooled engines, even in hot weather. These thicker oils start out thick enough, that even after they thin out from high temperatures, they are still thick enough to continue protecting an air-cooled engine.
The better Automotive motor oils are in fact, the best motor oils on the market, though most of them are often also too thin for air-cooled engines.
As it stands, I recommend 20W50 Valvoline VR1 Racing Oil, conventional in the silver bottle, for all air-cooled engines. It provides excellent protection, and I have used it myself for many years in air-cooled engines.
I have a Tech Article in-work for air-cooled engines. I will be testing a range of thicker oils to determine which are the good choice options available today. I should have it posted here in my Blog within the next couple of months.
Take care,
540 RAT