Many thanks for the fact-based work and testing you’re doing.
I’ve road raced a vintage 4 cylinder car for 10+ years, rebuilding the motor every 2 years or so.
With the latest motor, we utilized your test results and ran the motor from new with 5w30 QS Full Synthetic. Inspection after a recent teardown revealed cam lobes, followers and cylinder liners in FANTASTIC condition. Visibly and measurably less wear that we’ve experienced in the past with high viscosity “race oils”.
Thanks again- you are a unique human being and a blessing to those in the motorsports community willing to learn.
Mike P
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Hi Mike,
You are welcome. Thank you very much for the kind words. It’s nice to hear appreciation like that.
And thanks for the terrific feedback on your experience. It’s great to read that you have had amazing success just like many, many of my other Blog readers have had, from making use of my Engineering Test Data.
The source of the incredible results you and my other readers have benefitted from, can ONLY be found here in my Blog. All that “Real World” experience EXACTLY MATCHES what my Test Data has “Always Predicted”. And it specifically backs-up my recent Tech Article #75 on the CURE for flat tappet cam lobe failures.
That’s why I do all this. Because the Automotive World needs someplace to go that actually provides Engineering FACTS.
540 RAT – How much lift/spring pressure can factory type stamped steel lifters withstand on a high performance street SBC? Let’s assume one is using longer slot rockers.
Thanks,
Rich
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Hi again Rich,
If you haven’t already, you should read my new Tech Article #75 on the “CURE” for Flat Tappet Cam Lobe Failures.
I wrote that in response to your heads-up about that YouTube Video “IDIOT” with the black shirt and shaved head, who claims to be an engine builder.
Plus, you should also read the latest Blog reader testimonial I just received about the benefits of 5W30 Quaker State Full Synthetic, API SP, being used in a race engine, which can be found where I list recent updates, and at the beginning of my Blog’s main body.
As for your question above, you said “stamped steel lifters”, but in full context it seemed clear you were talking about “stamped steel rocker arms”.
So, regarding how much lift/spring pressure factory type stamped steel, long slot “rocker arms” can withstand on a high performance street SBC (small block Chevy V-8, for those not familiar) – I don’t have any data on what their limit might be.
That is mostly because High Performance or Racing SBC’s are typically fitted with aftermarket steel or aluminum rocker arms with a needle roller fulcrum pivot and roller tip with or without needles, that eliminates the factory type half-ball fulcrum pivot and slider tip.
But, factory type SBC stamped steel, and hardened, rocker arms are actually rather strong in general. And with the incredible 5W30 Quaker State Full Synthetic, API SP motor oil, any frictional drag losses at the fulcrum pivot and at the slider tip, should be negligible.
So, you “should” be able to do just about anything you want, using factory type stamped steel, long slot rocker arms, in your SBC flat tappet Race Car, unless you decide to go full roller cam and valve train at some point.
540 RAT – Yes, I mistakenly typed “lifter” where it should have been rocker. The question was posed as I’m thinking about a budget SBC 383 build for the street and have found little information on factory rockers as it seems nobody uses them anymore. I should just trust my gut as stamped rockers were all I had in the early 70’s on my hot 327 and I beat on it without mercy with no rocker failures.
You were spot on in your Article #75…I’m still laughing recalling his statements and efforts to delete any comments that did not align with his thinking. He is obviously not a follower of David Vizard’s train of thought lol…
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Hi again Rich,
For a budget SBC 383 build for the street, I expect you will be fine with factory type stamped steel rocker arms. I’ve never seen, nor even heard of any failing either.
Yeah, that YouTube moron is a laughing stock. But, he is so dumb, he doesn’t even know it. And sadly, thousands of people have watched that completely WRONG video. So, they all now believe BAD information that is a cancer in the Automotive world.
Thank you for sharing your knowledge. Your work is greatly appreciated!
I have been reading about the use of “thick” oils in air cooled engines in section 69 I am left with a question. Can it be assumed that the 10w60 dirt bike oil Amsoil sells would be preferred over their 10w50 option? Or is there a point where the higher weight would start to cause issue?
Thank you.
Cheers!
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Hi Jake,
Here’s a little more clarification. For air-cooled engines:
XW50 is the “ideal/recommended/preferred”MINIMUM viscosity.
XW60 is the “acceptable” MAXIMUM viscosity.
So, any viscosity in that overall range will work well enough, which provides air-cooled engine operators with more choices.
But, when choosing between 10W50 and 10W60 viscosities, 10W50 is “PREFERRED” because of its BETTER flow characteristics.
Your blog is the only site for oil info that i trust. Thank you so much for the information you shared.
For your info, i drive a Honda Accord with a K24A engine displacing 2.4 liters with a rev limit of 8200 rpm. From Honda manual, it is stated to use 5w40 engine oil.
But i usually see users of these engines in the USA, uses 5w30 engine oil. And i really want to try the spectacular Quaker State FS 5w-30 engine oil due to your test results.
The problem is i live in tropical South East Asia where the ambient temperature can reach 38 to 40 degrees Celsius (100 to 104*F).
What do you think ? Should i use the Quaker State FS ?
Thank you so much, sir..
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Hi there,
With a water-cooled vehicle, temperatures that high should not be a big concern. So, if your cooling system is in good condition, working properly, and preventing your engine from overheating, you should be able to use 5W30 motor oil with no worries at all.
Plus, your engine may well have an oil cooler, which of course will help also. When you first switch to the thinner and “IDEAL” 5W30, just initially verify that there is no indication of low oil pressure at any rpm, after the engine is fully warmed-up. It should be fine, but that is just a double check that all is well.
The factory calls for 5W40 which is THICKER than ideal, because they INCORRECTLY believe that thicker oil provides better wear protection. But, Engineering Tests have PROVEN over and over again, that viscosity has NOTHING to do with wear protection capability.
A motor oil’s wear protection capability is determined ONLY by its factory additive package, which includes the extreme pressure, anti-wear components, which have NOTHING to do with viscosity.
5W30 Quaker State Full Synthetic, API SP is THE BEST performing motor oil on the market today. It is a great choice for your Accord.
I saw your updated Tech Article 73 about how we can really use those new Super High Tech Smart Battery Chargers that are so badly designed.
I have held off on getting a battery charger because they don’t work right. But now thanks to your awesome work around plan, we can buy one of those Chargers and use it just fine. That’s a big load off my mind since I needed a battery charger.
Thanks for all the Engineering work you do to keep us going. We would be lost without you.
Can you post shipping information so as to send you several products to test?
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Well, let’s see. Your message is:
– Oddly unfriendly compared to the typical messages I receive.
– Cold and very presumptuous that I would even justify all the time and effort it would take to test products that you decided I should test.
– Disrespectful of my schedule and whether or not I would even agree to accept your products to test.
– Unacceptable for not stating what products you want tested, how many you want tested, or why you want them tested.
– The kind of strangely vague request I get from bad people who are troublemakers with ulterior motives, which prompted me to stop accepting oils from all readers for testing, a few years ago. The people who behave in that suspicious manner, ruin it for all the normal good people.
So for those reasons, I will NOT be testing any products for you, assuming that is even really what you are up to.
Like you, I am an engineer and very succinct in my communications.
I have a Supercharged 7.0 Liter Gen III Hemi that I build and I drag race in my Challenger.
I have found that heavier weight oils provide the best protection for the temperatures and duty cycle that my engine sees.
You have tested heavier weight oils to include:
0W40 – Mobil 1 FS
5W50 – Mobil 1 FSX2
5W50 – Amsoil Signature Series
20W50 – Amsoil Z-Rod
20W50 – Valvoline VR1 Racing Oil (syn and conv)
20W50 – Castrol GTX
I have used the oils listed below, currently and in the past and was wanting to send you a quart of each to test to see how each compares to those that you have tested.
I reached out to you in 2018 with the same quesiton and you shared with me that the bottles had to be in leak proof bags inside the shipping box and to notify you so that the company that recieved your packages could be make aware of their arrival – or something very close to that.
I was never able to send them to you because they say, life got in the way. Among a divorce, buying and selling two houses, two sons graduating high school and going off the college, I was never able to get them in the mail.
Since that time you added several of the heavier weight oils listed above to your tests and blog and have added section 69 regarding heavier weight oils in air cooled engines – which had piqued my curiosity and thought now that the dust has settled in my life, I would make time to send you a quart of each
It would have been very helpful if you had included at least some of your story in your previous message.
As for motor oil, you have apparently missed much of 4+ years of Engineering Test Data. Here’s a very short reference:
Many people INCORRECTLY assume that thicker oils provide better wear protection. But, Engineering Tests have PROVEN over and over again, that viscosity has NO INVOLVEMENT with wear protection or temperature capability.
A motor oil’s wear protection capability and its temperature capability are determined ONLY by its factory additive package, which includes the extreme pressure, anti-wear components, and the chemistry formulation for withstanding higher temps. And they have NOTHING to do with viscosity.
Viscosity primarily effects oil pressure and flow rates, but NOT wear protection, and NOT temperature capability. So, it is physically impossible for thicker oils to provide better protection and temperature capability in your engine. So, it would be interesting to know what hard data you have to support your claim about that.
So, unless you have sloppy loose clearances and a standard volume oil pump, which could necessitate thicker oil, you have been using the WRONG oils.
5W30 is “THE IDEAL OVERALL VISCOSITY” for most water-cooled, gasoline powered engines. It provides THE BEST OVERALL flow, lubrication and cooling. It also creates less air bubbles/foaming, and less viscous drag than thicker oils. So, there is a HP benefit to be had at the track. And on top of all that, THE BEST wear protection capability can also be found in 5W30.
My current All-Time number 1 motor oil, out of 284 motor oils tested so far, that set the HIGHEST WEAR PROTECTION CAPABILITY EVER RECORDED, is 5W30 Quaker State Full Synthetic, API SP, with an EXTREMELY IMPRESSIVE 152,674 psi. And its onset of thermal breakdown was an impressive 290*F.
It is FAR BETTER than any Racing Oil, any high zinc oil, any modern street oil, or any other motor oil on the market today PERIOD!!! I highly recommend it to my readers. Because my Blog is based on providing information on what is BEST, not on what we can just get by with.
If you haven’t read it already, you should read my Tech Article #74 on the ULTIMATE Motor Oil SMACKDOWN.
I use 5W30 Quaker State Full Synthetic, API SP in all of my own engines from 800 HP on down to to stock daily driver vehicles, which includes Supercharged and traditional flat tappet engines.
And MANY of my Blog readers use it as well, in everything from economy cars, to normal daily drivers, to High Performance street cars, to Drag Cars, some with Superchargers, Turbochargers, Hemi’s and flat tappet engines.
And FYI, several years ago I caught Castrol, now owned by BP, greatly reducing their products wear protection capability, across the board. No doubt to cut costs and maximize profits. I was so disgusted with them, that I stopped using their products, I stopped recommending their products, and I stopped wasting my time testing their products. Buyer beware!!!
XW50 and XW60 motor oils are TOO THICK to be suitable for anything but “air-cooled” engines. Because those oils start out thick enough, that when those oils get much hotter and thinner in air-cooled engines that cannot control their oil temps, those oils still won’t be dangerously too thin to protect the engines.
XW40 motor oils are THICKER THAN IDEAL for water-cooled, gasoline engines. And they are THINNER THAN IDEAL for air-cooled engines. They really are NOT the best choice for much of anything. So, I have no plans to waste my time and effort on testing any more XW40 gas engine motor oils.
You should do yourself a favor, and switch to 5W30 Quaker State Full Synthetic, API SP. You can even get good prices on it at Walmart. Just make sure that your engine is capable of producing acceptable “HOT” operating temperature oil pressure with the thinner 5W30. Acceptable hot oil pressure indicates that your oiling system is capable of maintaining the critical hydrodynamic liquid oil wedge in your main and rod bearings.
It has been a little while since I last posted a question. A few moths ago I traded in my Jeep Wrangler JLU 3.6 for a new Jeep Gladiator. I needed a truck and they offered me more than I could have imagined for my old Jeep.
Since finding your blog, I have been a true believer about 0w20 being too thin and 5w30 being the best to use.
I always have the same routine when I get a new vehicle. I run it up to around a 1000 miles and dump the factory fill. This Gladiator was no exception. I put in 5 qts of 5w30 Quaker State Full Synthetic and a new Purolator cartridge filter at 1k.
What are your thoughts of dumping the factory fill early and putting in fresh oil with a new filter?
This truck is not my daily driver, I put 600-700 miles a month on it. I even run non-ethanol gas in it. I don’t want the ethanol to cause any issues from not driving it daily.
I will be changing the oil again at 5k and it currently has less than 2k miles on it. Would the Quaker State Full Synthetic be good for 5-7k almost 1 year oil change intervals or would your #2 ranked Amsoil 5w30 Signature Series be a better fit?
I hope you and yours have a Merry Christmas.
Thanks,
Jonathan
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Hi again Jonathan,
You cannot change motor oil too often. So, it is perfectly fine to dump the factory-fill oil EARLY and then put in fresh oil and a new oil filter.
I do the same thing myself. Though I usually do it as soon as I can get to it, which is usually at around 100 miles or so.
NOTE: For anyone reading this – Engineering evaluations have confirmed over and over again, that precision-built engines using quality parts, break-in immediately on their own, when they are fired up for the first time. Because components are “forced” to seat-in instantly in order to carry the load applied to them.
So, there is no “break-in” concern about draining factory-fill oil EARLY. Because Factories do NOT need, and do NOT use any kind of break-in oil.
The whole notion of Break-In is only a MYTH, that is perpetuated by incompetent, non-Engineers on worthless Automotive Forums. The FACT is, it simply does NOT matter how a new engine is initially operated.
You can run brand new engines slow and easy initially, or you can run them hard and fast initially, and it makes absolutely NO difference what so ever. So, there is NO particular “Break-In” procedure that has to be followed, no matter what anyone else tells you.
Keep in mind that countless “millions” of non-enthusiast people have purchased new vehicles over countless decades, who have never even heard the term “Break-In”. So, they have done nothing special for so-called “Break-In”. They just drove their vehicles how they normally use them. That’s it!!! And those engines did not have any problems. Only enthusiasts on worthless Automotive Forums, INCORRECTLY “think” they need to perform some ridiculous “Break-In” procedure.
BOTTOM LINE:
The FACT is, you can simply run brand new engines from day one, the way you plan to normally operate them. This holds true as long as engines are built properly, and use “good performance” motor oils. Though newly built traditional flat tappet engines should use only “high performance” motor oils.
And for the record, so-called “Break-In” oils marketed to Hotrodders and Racers, are THE WORST PERFORMING motor oils I have ever tested. They are so bad, that they should NEVER EVER be used.
In FACT, a high psi, highly ranked oil from my “Wear Protection Ranking List”, is THE BEST motor oil to use for firing-up a brand new engine for the first time, and then continue on with that same oil.
I generally do NOT recommend extended drain intervals, no matter what oil is used.
– For “normally driven” vehicles that are daily drivers or if they sit a lot, I recommend changing the oil and oil filter at 5,000 miles max or 1 year, whichever comes first.
– For vehicles that are subjected to “severe and/or aggressive” operation much of the time, I recommend changing the oil and oil filter at 3,000 miles max or 1 year, whichever comes first.
THE BEST performing motor oil on the market, regarding “wear protection capability”, which is THE MOST IMPORTANT PROPERTY of any motor oil, is 5W30 Quaker State Full Synthetic, API SP. It is readily available, especially at Walmart, where you can also get very good prices on it. So, choosing this oil is a no brainer.
5W30 Amsoil Signature Series, API SP, is the 2nd best motor oil on the market. You have to order it, and it is very expensive. So, there is no good reason to choose it, unless for some reason you cannot get the 5W30 Quaker State Full Synthetic motor oil.
I just saw in the new NHRA National Dragster Magazine, a big ad for VP Racing Fuels’ line of VP Racing Lubricants. I didn’t even know they had lubricants.
I went to their website to check out what they have. And they sound really, really good, like their lubricants are the best ever created.
I was wondering if you might have any plans to test their lubricants, to see if they are as good as they claim?
Thanks for providing us with the facts. Keep up your great work you do.
Zenyatta
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Hi there,
VP Racing “Lubricants” is not widely known, the way VP Racing “Fuels” is. But, their lubricants division is not new. It began back around 2015 when VP Racing Fuels contracted Maverick Performance Products to create lubricants, and handle that division for them.
But, I never paid any attention to their high zinc racing lubricants. Because high zinc racing lubricants have a reputation for being among the WORST motor oils on the market, for wear protection capability.
These oil companies have NO IDEA what they are doing. They just dump a huge amount of the last century’s outdated, obsolete zinc in their oil, and proclaim it the best oil available.
However, Engineering Tests have shown over and over again, that their bragging is only false advertising and fraudulent claims. Buyer beware!!!
No one in their right mind would ever use these pathetic, extremely poor performing high zinc oils. But, there is no shortage of Hotrodders, Racers, and Cam Companies who are brainwashed about needing high zinc oil.
So, they believe that nonsense, and continue to use those pitiful oils. So, they continue to have oil related problems, including wiped flat tappet cam lobes. And sadly they do not get a clue how bad those high zinc oils are. You just can’t make this stuff up.
So, I more or less forgot about VP Racing Lubricants. Then I saw that new National Dragster ad also. That reminder prompted me to go to their website and see what they had to say. And yes their claims are HUGE.
Then I reconsidered, and decided to test some of their lubricants after all. I don’t expect much from them, because of past experience with high zinc racing oils. And a perfect example of that is the utter FAILURE of the Driven high zinc Racing oil that I recently tested.
But, I have a huge number of Hotrodder and Racer Blog readers, who could benefit from factual Engineering Test Data on those VP Racing Lubricants. And that made it justifiable for me to go to the trouble of testing them.
Here are the VP Racing Lubricants I’ll be testing;
– 5W30 VP Pro Grade Full Synthetic Racing Oil, with a WHOPPING 2,000 ppm zinc, and a WHOPPING 1,810 ppm phosphorus. Those insanely high levels prove they have no idea what they are doing. Because truly well formulated 21st century oils do NOT need that.
– 10W40 VP Racing High Zinc Break-in engine oil
– VP Racing Hi-Performance 75W90 LS Full Synthetic GL-5 Gear Oil
I should probably have the results posted in two or three weeks.
Hello Rat!
I’m kind of in a weird situation. I’ve been using QSFS 5w30 on my vehicles in the last couple of years now and I really like it! But the other day, I had my ’08 Jeep Grand Cherokee v6 3.7l, sitting outside the garage(which normally isn’t) for a couple of hours. It happened to be -4 degrees F. I started it up to drive it in the garage and it sounded horrible, lots ticking noise and sputtering around coming from the top end. I turned the engine off immediately cause it sounded like oil wasn’t getting to the top end fast enough! The oil pressure gauge showed that even was up to pressure. So I started it again quickly limped it into the garage and shut it off again. I thought that maybe the filter was restricting. I’m using a Motorcraft filter. This hasn’t been a previous problem for me. We had a cold snap here in Iowa. I haven’t checked it out since we left for Christmas break. My question, I know you probably don’t recommend it, but I’m thinking of creating a “witch’s brew”for the winter time. My son is driving this vehicle to school and it’ll be sitting outside in the cold all day and I don’t want this to happen to him while he’s at school. I’m thinking of 50/50 QSFS 0w20 and 5w30, making it 2.5w25ish?(does that sound right?) because it’s the same brand, I thought this should be more compatible formulation wise. Or go with 50/50, Mobil 1 Europe formula 0w40 and QSFS 5w30, making it a 2.5w30ish.(their formulation are probably less compatible?) Both are readily available. I know I could go with a lower ranking oil on your list, but I’d rather not. Your thoughts are greatly appreciated! Thank you! -Joe S.
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Hi again Joe,
Sorry to hear about your situation, which sounds very odd. If it ran and sounded fine only a couple of hours earlier, there is no reason why a 5W cold rated oil should have a flow problem, even at that cold temperature.
The oil passages would still have oil in them. All components would still be coated with oil. And oil should start flowing very quickly without issue. The oil filter would not be restricting because the oil filter bypass valve would open.
Engines don’t usually have a problem like that, much less one that only sat for a couple of hours.
You were not clear about the oil pressure, with the way you worded it. So, I’m not sure what you were trying to say there. Did it have oil pressure, or did it not have oil pressure?
From the way you described the problem, it sounded more like a mechanical engine problem than an oil flow problem.
But, trying a thinner cold rated oil would be the easiest and quickest thing to do. Though there is not a huge difference between 0W and 5W cold rated oils.
As for what oil to use, I would try 0W30 Amsoil Signature Series. But, you probably would not be able to get it quick enough. So, just get a 0W30 that you can find immediately, and give it a try.
For a normal daily driver that is just driven around modestly, it is not that critical to use a high performance oil. But, you could revisit that after winter.
And what happened to “Global Warming” that radical fanatics are always screaming about?
Thanks for your response! Yeah! Global warming is a myth!
The oil pressure gauge did indicate good oil pressure during the start up. I just thought the whole thing seemed rather odd as well! I’ll figure something out when I get back.
A different question. Does a dirty or restricted air filter cause the engine to consume more oil? Causing negative pressure and sucking it past the rings in the cylinders?
Thanks again! -Joe S.
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Hi again,
If the engine still runs normally, the air filter is not clogged enough to cause any real concern with the engine.
However, bad valve guide seals are the most likely source for possibly passing a bit more oil with a REALLY dirty air filter.
Worn/hard old valve guide seals, worn rings/cylinders, and using overly thin motor oil, especially if it is synthetic, are the primary causes of oil consumption.
Let me know what the wind-up was with your rattling engine.
Sorry. I should have clarified. The latter question was related to a completely different situation. I have another vehicle that seems to be using more oil than normal. Especially when we’re traveling. I added a total of 1.5 quarts of oil in 1300 miles. 2000 Ford Excursion with the V10. I have an aftermarket K&N CAI system on it. I replaced the K&N filter with an AEM dry filter, because the AEM filter is a little thicker material and I get tired of washing it and waiting until it dries. And I thought it would filter better than the K&N. With the K&N filter installed, I have fine dust partials in the intake tube. I just installed the AEM filter a week ago and I wanted to compare the 2 after awhile. We live on a dusty, gravel road so I also had a pre filter wrap on both filters. I’m not sure why that would increase oil consumption? Probably totally unrelated. A year ago or so, making the exact same trip (1300 miles), it used only a half a quart of oil. Both times, using QSFS 5w30. That is why I asked if a restricted air filter could cause that. I heard that severely, dirty filters could cause that. I know mine isn’t dirty(obviously) and it shouldn’t be that restrictive! 😁 Anyway, with the timing of everything going on, it’s probably just a flucke. I hope this makes sense. Thanks again. -Joe S.
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Hi again,
Using .5 quart of 5W30 in 1,300 miles is bad enough. But, 1.5 quarts of 5W30 in 1,300 miles, only one year later is definitely “excessive” oil consumption.
I’ve run K&N air filters for many years on a number of my vehicles. And I have never seen any dust in the intake tubes. But then, I never drive on dusty gravel roads either.
Using a K&N air filter on a regular vehicle that is continually operated dusty gravel roads is probably not the best idea. I would use the stock air filter for that application, to play it safe.
Your 22 year old Excursion probably has a LOT of miles on it after all these years. Then adding to that, continuous operation on dusty gravel roads with a K&N air filter, would suggest that that the engine is most likely rather worn. Gravel dust is quite abrasive (worse than dirt dust) which is consistent with likely causing excess wear.
And such excessive oil consumption would confirm that the engine is not in good shape. If it is not leaking quite a bit of oil, then it is burning it. If the engine has been breathing in abrasive gravel dust into the intake system, the best oil in the world cannot save your engine from extra wear.
So, you are stuck with “what to do now about that excessive oil consumption”. You have 4 choices:
1. Do nothing, and just continue adding oil as needed.
2. Put the intake system back to stock with a stock air filter to prevent further wear, and add oil as needed.
3. Use the next thicker “conventional” motor oil, such XW40, which will help reduce oil consumption.
4. Perform a proper “Leak Down Test” on the engine. See my Tech Article #5 for the details. And if badly worn as expected, have the engine rebuilt.
Thanks again! It seems to consume more oil on long distance trips than when I’m around home. I add between .5qt to 1qt, between oil changes (every 5,000 miles). It has 232,000 miles on the clock. I’m wondering, why the difference? I’ll put thicker oil in it when I get home. Thanks again! -Joe S.
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Hi again,
After 232,000 miles, it’s no surprise that the engine is worn enough to consume some oil, especially since it was apparently sucking some abrasive gravel dust.
It uses more oil on long trips, because it is humming along at a modest rpm more or less endlessly. So, that is a much higher average rpm per hour than you would typically see just driving around where you live.
Hi RAT,
Just type to wish to you and your beloved ones Merry Christmas, as to thank you once again for your contribution in engineering through so much time and effort spent.
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Hi again Emmanouil,
Thank you very much for the well wishes and kind words.
We have seen the data on Oil Extreme concentrate in your tests and I understand it is not always an improvement depending on the oil it is mixed with.
I know David Vizard owns stock in this company…since they are now marketing their own branded oil I was wondering if you had ever tested these?
Thanks, Rich
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Hi again Rich,
The Oil Extreme Company has been Marketing their own “motor oil” for many years now. And yes, several years back, I tested their 5W30 Oil Extreme “Motor Oil”, API SM, synthetic. It is currently ranked number 51 on my Wear Protection Ranking List, with 110,286 psi.
At the time I tested it, it was a decent oil to use. But, today’s top performing newer API SP motor oils have left that Oil Extreme “Motor Oil” far behind.
The 5W30 Quaker State Full Synthetic, API SP motor oil you are using now, produced an amazing 152,674 psi, and is ranked “NUMBER 1” out of 284 motor oils tested so far. It is BY FAR, “KING” of the Hill. It provides a WHOPPING 38% MORE wear protection capability than that Oil Extreme “motor oil”.
Thanks 540 RAT – Given the selling price of Oil Extreme’s product line I question David’s investment strategy. It appears to be a good oil, but when you have to compete in the marketplace it seems your product had better be nothing short of outstanding to justify those prices. I would venture a guess that this oil line is being purchased mainly by those who associate the Vizard name and his endorsement. Why spend more on a product when there are better alternatives available that need no crutches?
Thanks,
Rich
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Hi Rich,
You are probably right about all that. When Vizard first got involved with Oil Extreme was a long time ago, when it was among the better motor oils. So, that made sense at the time.
But, times have changed and the newer Quaker State Full Synthetic and Amsoil Signature Series oils have set new records for outstanding “wear protection capability” performance, which is a motor oil’s MOST IMPORTANT PROPERTY.
That means Oil Extreme “motor oil” is no longer among the better motor oils worth considering.
I hope you had a good Christmas and will have a good start to the New Year coming up in a few days here.
I’m curious, do companies specifically look for Mechanical Engineering students that are in their Junior year or higher to fill internship positions?
I have a current internship, but I’m running out of things to learn and I don’t want to be a project engineer at a job shop as my career. I know I have to build experience somehow.
Also, would some kind of Python programming certification be useful to me?
Thanks in advance,
Sam
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Hi again Sam,
I have no involvement with HR (Human Resources). So, I am not in a position to offer any advice, nor information on Intern hiring. Plus, that could well vary from Company to Company.
Python programming is not something that Mechanical Engineers would normally use in their job. So, having a Certification for that, would not help you in a normal Mechanical Engineering job at all. And I can’t imagine it could help in any way on your Resume either.
Your time would be far better spent building up your experience in Computer Modeling, such as CATIA, Unigraphics, etc. Because Mechanical Engineers who actually design components, use Computer Modeling everyday. Plus, that WOULD look great on your Resume.
Just went through your oil and oil filter articles and will be switching to Quaker State from Mobil 1. As for the oil filter my Lexus IS300 calls for the Motorcraft FL-910S vs the ones you have tested. Will that be better then the current Mobil 1 filter I use?
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Hi John,
Yes, the Motorcraft FL-910S is a much better designed and manufactured oil filter than the Mobil 1 oil filter.
5W30 Quaker State Full Synthetic API SP, and the Motorcraft FL-910S oil filter, is a much better combination than Mobil 1 and Mobil 1.
Could you weigh in on oil pumps. I have narrowed it down to a melling pump 10552st or maybe a 10990 pump. I will be using a dart block but not the SHP type it is above that. the 10990 is a bbc pump with 12 gears instead of 7, the 10552 uses shark tooth gears, I will not be doing the actual building, if that even matters.
Thanks so much for all you do and Happy Year.
Douglas
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Hi again Douglas,
Just so you know, gerotor type oil pumps, such as those that are offered by Titan and Moroso, are a much better, more advanced design compared to the old obsolete spur gear type oil pumps you are asking about.
The old type spur gear oil pumps are cheaper, but still work well enough for many applications, even though they are not the best.
The difference between a High Pressure oil pump and a Standard Pressure oil pump, is simply which oil pressure relief valve spring is being used.
The Standard Pressure spring is usually 60 psi, which is fine for most street operated vehicles.
The High Pressure spring is usually 70 psi, which is desirable for most high rpm racing vehicles.
As for the two spur gear (including the shark teeth design which is a variation of spur gears) oil pumps you are asking about:
– 10552st, $178 at Summit, is High Volume oil pump that produces only about 10% or so more volume than a normal standard volume oil pump, and is a High Pressure 70 psi oil pump.
– 10990, $174 at Summit, is High Volume oil pump that produces about 25% or so more volume than a normal standard volume oil pump, and is a Standard Pressure 60 psi oil pump.
CONCLUSION:
The 10552st oil pump is not a “TRUE High Volume” oil pump because it ONLY produces about 10% more volume than a stock standard volume oil pump. Therefore, it does NOT provide enough extra volume to make it worth getting. So, I would NOT select this oil pump.
The 10990 oil pump “IS” a TRUE High Volume oil pump, since it provides about 25% “more” volume than a stock standard volume oil pump. The standard pressure 60 psi relief valve spring may be fine for your application. But, if you need 70 psi, then simply swap out the relief valve spring. So, I “WOULD” select this oil pump.
A TRUE High Volume oil pump is highly desirable because higher volume provides better flow, lubrication, cooling, and allows thinner 5W30 to generate good HOT oil pressure.
I posted here about how my flat tappet camshaft wiped out in my 1968 383 Dart due to an inferior oil I used from Lucas for classic cars. I know better now thanks to your blog.
I know you commented on the potential damage for engines that sit for a long period due to dry startup.
I came across an oil preluber on Summit Auto Racing that operates on air pressure forcing oil throughout the engine. It attaches to the sending unit hole and pumps oil through the entire engine prior to startup.
Allstar Performance Oil Pressure Primer Tanks ALL10535 it sells for $169.99
It seems like a good idea. Your thoughts would be appreciated.
Thanks for helping so many!! Gary
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Hi Gary,
Yes, oil accumulators have been around for many years, from various Manufacturers. And they are a GREAT idea for engines that sit a lot. I recommend 3 quart oil accumulators for V-8 engines.
Hello Mr. Rat,
A mechanic told me that conventional oils leave a coating of varnish on the wear surfaces of an engine and that acts as a protection in those first few seconds at start up. Is there any truth to that?
Dean
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Hi again Dean,
No. Never believe anything any mechanic, engine builder, Cam Company, or Automotive Forum ever says about motor oil. Because they have “no idea” what they are talking about.
They are clueless about the FACTS. They just throw out their “belief” with no data at all to back-up what they say.
Anything ever said about motor oil without supporting “back-up” data, is only opinion/speculation/guessing.
Everything I post here in my Engineering Blog, is backed-up by hard Engineering Test Data. You will not find reliable information anywhere except right here in my Blog.
I hope you had a good Christmas and new year?
I was just recently asked a question about Redline oil, and as usual i came here to check what you’d tested, only to find that it’s one of the few you have yet to cover. I did see a race version of their oil tested, showing what you might expect, a very short lifecycle.
So i went to their website and had a quick look; the comment i was asked about was referring to people having success in combatting the “hemi tick”, which made me curious. I don’t fully understand all the conditions of that affliction, but as it’s valvetrain, i assumed a thicker oil would be one of the things that could affect that.
Looking at both their regular “high performance” line and their “professional series” oil, which seems to be for OEM certified use, the specs for the 5w30 oil, do both show a viscosity at the upper end of the 30 spec – 11.9 and 11.0 respectively. The high performance oil’s viscosity being higher than our favourite 5w30, QSFS’s 11.6.
Now we both know viscosity doesn’t represent protection, but would affect valvetrain noise and obviously oil pressure.
However, looking at the High Performance i saw one of their taglines as slightly strange:
“Thicker oil film at operating temperature than a petroleum 10W40”
That’s both ambiguous enough, and yet interesting enough to make me stop – one can only assume that by “petroleum 10W40” they mean a conventional oil, but that their 5w30 should be a higher film strength than the 40 was also interesting. Makes me wonder how they’re testing film strength in this aspect.
Now, not even their “Professional series” for OEM’s is listed as anything newer than SN Plus, but does seem to be ILSAC GF5, so they at least paid for that approval, suggesting it’s likely to be API SP.
Their fancier High Performance oil is rated only up to the API SN standard, with it’s only other redeeming (advertised) features being the ‘fancy’ base oils being used and the other claims of their high quality polyol base stocks being thicker and naturally multigrade…..
That last part sounds, interesting.
Anyway, i thought everyone might find this interesting, and whilst we have no data on this stuff, it’s another one of those big performance claim oil brands like the one you recently tested, but from what i think is a larger brand.
Thanks
Maxx
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Happy New Year Maxx,
I have tested 3 different Red Line motor oils. Here they are with their Ranking number from my Wear Protection Ranking List, and the psi value they produced:
*** THE HIGHER THE PSI VALUE, THE BETTER THE WEAR PROTECTION CAPABILITY ***
#105. 30wt Red Line Racing Oil = 96,470 psi, for short term Racing ONLY
#137. 5W30 Red Line, API SN = 91,028 psi
#164. 15W40 Red Line Diesel Oil = 85,663 psi
So as you can see, their wear protection capability performance, which is THE MOST IMPORTANT PROPERTY of any motor oil, is NOT impressive at all.
This is just another small-ish Motor Oil brand that is mostly false advertising and fraudulent claims. It is NOT a good enough brand to even consider, when there are SO MANY FAR BETTER performing motor oils readily available. So, I don’t even waste my time, effort, or money to test Red Line oils anymore.
There is NO REASON to look beyond my top two ranked motor oils, which are:
#1. 5W30 Quaker State Full Synthetic (QSFS) API SP = 152,674 psi, which provides a “WHOPPING 68% MORE” wear protection capability than 5W30 Red Line, API SN motor oil.
#2. 5W30 Amsoil Signature Series, API SP = 141,851 psi, which provides a “WHOPPING 56% MORE” wear protection capability than 5W30 Red Line, API SN motor oil.
Yes, petroleum means conventional.
That “Tagline” is bogus. It is NOT “thicker” oil film. They are trying to say a “Stronger” or “Better” oil film, which refers to a “higher psi film strength”.
Viscosity is NOT involved with an oil’s film strength. So, it is very common for better 5W30 motor oils to have a higher psi film strength than 10W40 oils.
No, API SP oils go hand in hand with GF-6A oils, NOT GF-5 oils.
Yes, viscosity would typically have the biggest affect on “ticking” noises, as well as oil pressure.
The numbers you provided on viscosity shows:
Their High Performance oil is ONLY 3% thicker than QSFS.
And their Professional Series is 5% thinner than QSFS.
So once again, it is a no-brainer that OVERALL, 5W30 QSFS is BY FAR THE BEST CHOICE.
Love your work. I’ve been a devoted user of first, Quaker State Ultimate Durability, and then Full Synthetic as it was reformulated in 2020/2021.
I just bought another batch of Full Synthetic 5W-30 from Walmart and noticed that the labels had changed.
The one left over bottle from October 2021 had GM Dexos1 Gen2 certification whilst the new bottle does not say any GM approvals on the sticker label. However, it does feintly say GM Dexos1 Gen3 on the build date label printed directly on the bottle itself – happy to email you pics for clarification if needed.
Any chance you could test the latest version to check for formulation is still awesome as always?
Warm regards,
Leo.
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Hi Leo,
I’m happy to read that you are using 5W30 Quaker State Full Synthetic, API SP, which is THE BEST motor oil I have ever put through my Engineering Torture Test on motor oil.
No, the change from Gen 2 to Gen 3 is such a small “GM ONLY” change, which does not apply to any other vehicles, that it does not justify the time, effort, and cost to retest the oil just for that.
I only retest oils for a significant change that applies to all vehicles, such as an API change.
Wow! What a terrific compilation of info you’ve collected. I’m a total oil novice just trying to figure out what oil and oil filters I should use in my two vehicles: A 1991 Toyota Previa with 340K miles on the original engine and a 2015 Subaru Crosstrek with 75K miles. From what I’ve located on your site thus far, I think I’ve settled on your recommendation for the Quaker State full synthetic oil for both vehicles, but I’m having a tough time finding which filters to use as the recommended Ford Motorcraft ones don’t appear to be available for either of my vehicles. Do you have any suggestions for me in this regard? Thanks in advance for any assistance you are able to offer. Happy 2023!
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Hi there,
I’m glad to see you like the info that is available here in my Blog. And just to be clear, I did not just “collect” the info here in my Blog. I “created” the info here in my Blog from my Engineering Test Data.
Yes, 5W30 Quaker State Full Synthetic, API SP, is an excellent choice for both of your vehicles.
If you cannot find a Motorcraft oil filter for a vehicle, then the second best choice is either Bosch or Purolator, which are equivalent.
You caught me napping 😦 Of course GF5 is API SN/plus, my mistake mixing that one up, and of course i tried a find in page for “redline” instead of the correct listing, “red line”
137th place is not that good, is it, barely better than the Castrol entries 😀 So pretty much the only thing this 5w30 brings to the table, is viscosity, but not much more than the QSFS which is around 1/3rd the price of Red Line.
Thanks ever so much for your prompt response to my questions. All of the data you have created with your testing and the accompanying explanations are terrific.
I’ve got another oil filter question: is any Motorcraft filter preferable to the Bosch or Purolator?
I ask because apparently the Motorcraft FL910S is available for my older Toyota, but I haven’t found it here… maybe I missed it?
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Hi again,
Yes, Motorcraft oil filters are preferable to Bosch or Purolator oil filters.
It is not possible for me to test every last oil filter on the market, just like it is not possible for me to test every last motor oil on the market.
So, that particular Motorcraft FL910S oil filter, not being as widely used, was not included in my oil filter test Article.
I’m v e r y impressed by this amazing document, years of work, I’ve been reading/studying about 80% of or so the last weekS!
I really like your “But’s” and use of CAPS LOCK + “!!’s”. It makes it really “alive” and exciting to study and understand well! 😉 Please go on in that way!
NO webpage, ever, so far I found, has lead to the IRL-tests you do, with no manufacturers or $’s “included”.
One topic, only YOU noticed so far, not found on the other (not so serious…) webpages, is to use heavier oil in air-cooled egines, I DO agree!
For this, my 1 question for you:
I’m the (first) owner of a 1990′ Suzuki GSX-R 750L in brilliant condition, and 80k, with no scoring or sludge, and only slightly metal-debris. Using magnetic oil drain plug.
Manual (1990) says 10W-40 which i’ve been using since new (also in the july city heat in Madrid @ 116F). Only used very litte amount of oil between OCI. Always 100% synthetic, and engine is cranked, to let oil pressure lamp go out, *before* starting up.
It also states, that “If you cannot get the 10W-40, 10W-50 or 15W-50 CAN be used”…..
But! The outstanding SACS oil-/air-cooling system is fitted with (of course) a radial oil cooler, and a mechanical plunger valve after one of the two oil pumps, to supply the oil cooler.
When engine is cold, oil is thick = pressure is high, and oil only passes through the by-pass channel via the plunger-valve, **directly to the oil filter**.
When engine- and oiltemps rises, oil is getting thinner, and the plunger closes, allowing the oil to go to the oil cooler.
I don’t know, if you are familar with these engines, too, so here, found at page 141, is it shown/described (as in my genuine service manual) for the 1986 model – nearby very similar SACS cooling system:
1. SACS PDF
The oil-question is:
IF I go with 10W-50 in the future, as you now has confirmed for air-cooled engines, will it affect the mechanical plunger-valve operating range, negative?
During warm up period, and “normal” driving, will the valve be restricting the flow to the oil-cooler due to the thicker oil?
In *my* theory, it will, but will it then, later, “allow” the higher 50-grade to be more hot, and therefore thin, to – anyway – let through the oil-cooler?
The machine is used in (air-)temperatures within 42-88F, mostly so in the 60’ies. No track days, but sometimes it sees the redline at 13k. 😉
**Surely**, I would respect if you haven’t any knowledge about these SACS-systems!
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In Honda CBR1000RR forums, they stated(!), that going from 10W-40 to 10W-50 will reduce rear wheel benchmark power with 6 BHP due to rised viscosity resistance?
Do you have any experience regarding this?
So far, in the overwhelming, all to wide “jungle” of engine oils, I’ve come to these two suggestions, Amsoil found in Germany:
2. 10W40 Amsoil 4T Motorcycle Oil
3. 10W50 Amsoil Metric Moyorcycle Oil
Would you think the old racer will like it for the next decades? Or do you have other suggestions?
(The new Quaker State Full Synthetic isn’t available here in Europe, sadly, Shell(!) has informed)
Gladly, I also found you determined, that new, better wear-additives has “taken over” for the reduced ZDDP, correct? (Article 74, interesting!) Thank you!
Final word: Do you know this report:
4. AMSOIL Advertising Video
Please feel free to ask questions, or correct me if i’ve missed something, thx.
I would – again – like to THANK YOU for this amazing content, serious! Wow 😉
K.R.
Carsten.
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Hi there,
Welcome to my Engineering Blog. I’m glad to read you like the information you found here so much, that you have invested many hours of your time reading it.
I’m also glad to read that you like my Honest, Real World, and FACTUAL, “Tell it Like it is Engineering” style of writing. That is what separates my Reliable and Trustworthy Blog from all the other sources out there that are only worthless garbage.
And thank you for the kind words of praise.
For those not familiar:
IRL means “In Real Life”
SACS means “Suzuki Advanced Cooling System”, which is an air and oil cooling system for motorcycles that are fundamentally air-cooled.
I clicked on all the links you provided. But, I don’t allow links in my Blog, so they are not shown here.
Link number 1 said “Not Found”. So I Googled SACS, but I did not find the technical detail I was looking for.
Link number 2 showed 10W40 Amsoil 4T Motorcycle Oil that is apparently an outdated listing. Because Amsoil does not list that oil on their current website.
Link number 3 showed 10W50 Amsoil Metric Moyorcycle Oil that is apparently an outdated listing. Because Amsoil does not list that oil on their current website either.
Suzuki says your motorcycle can use:
10W40
10W50
15W50
That means your SACS will function properly with all those viscosities. Keep in mind that the viscosity difference between cold oil and hot oil, is much greater than the viscosity difference between those viscosities at a given temperature.
So, the viscosity of those oils are much closer than you think. The largest effects on the plunger valve come from temperature changes, which cause it to open or close.
Thicker motor oil can cause some reduction in Horsepower because of increased viscous drag. But, do not believe any information you read on any Forum. Because Forum people are unqualified and incompetent. They are completely untrustworthy.
It simply does not matter if you lose a small amount of power from using a thicker motor oil, as long as it provides better protection than the previous oil you were using, and your motorcycle is not used as a Professional Race bike.
Wear protection capability is THE MOST IMPORTANT PROPERTY of any motor oil. Everything else a motor oil does, comes AFTER that.
Amsoil offers some of the “Best” motor oils on the market. But, they also offer some of the “Worst” motor oils on the market.
So, I only recommend using motor oils that I provide Engineering Test Data on. That way you will truly know what you are getting.
To provide the “Best” protection for your 33 year old Suzuki GSX-R 750 air/oil-cooled motorcycle, I recommend using 10W50 Amsoil Dirt Motorcycle Oil, which was THE NUMBER 1 motor oil in my Tech Article #69 on Air-Cooled engine oil.
*** NOTE: Thicker oil is still needed even in air-cooled Suzuki’s that have the SACS feature. Because SACS is totally dependent on “Air Flow” to transfer heat away for cooling, just like any air-cooled engine. And in very hot weather, with little to no air flow, such as in stop and go traffic in Madrid when the ambient (surrounding air) temperature is 116*F, the oil can become extremely hot and thin. But, thick oil will NOT become dangerously thin to the point that it cannot protect the engine, like thinner oils would. ***
Thank you Rat very much for specified answer, rapidly!
I was googling “suzuki gsx-r 750 SACS 10W-50″ – then the PDF appeared at page one, below, if you want to see the system-drawing.
For eventually future questions, am I then allowed to include technical web-links (only) YOU do see, and you then delete/”rename”, as above, before final-posting? Or would you prefer none at all?!
Today I’ve been requesting the german supplier for Dirt oil 10W-50, as only the 10W-40 is visible in the shop.
Also thank you for clear description regarding aging engine oils (in use). I must admit, the last drain i made this fall, was not due to that many miles, but year(s……..), and the bad smell and thin viscosity confirmed it huh!
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Regarding CTEK “”smart”” chargers article,,,,, have you seen them been “baking” water out of ordinary lead-acid batteries when attached for many months? (Car, motorcycle, garden)
This winter i only attach them every the 1’st. in each month, let LEDs be green, and then disconnect to see if level will remain steady.
Again, THANK YOU, happy I found you in this very exciting blog! 😉
Carsten.
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Hi again Carsten,
You are welcome.
I added a clarification to my response to your previous message. I included it again immediately below, in case you don’t go back to reread my previous response.
*** NOTE: Thicker oil is still needed even in air-cooled Suzuki’s that have the SACS feature. Because SACS is totally dependent on “Air Flow” to transfer heat away for cooling, just like any air-cooled engine. And in very hot weather, with little to no air flow, such as in stop and go traffic in Madrid when the ambient (surrounding air) temperature is 116*F, the oil can become extremely hot and thin. But, thick oil will NOT become dangerously thin to the point that it cannot protect the engine, like thinner oils would. ***
Feel free to share a link to my Blog, to any technical person you know. It is important to get true Engineering FACTS out there as much as possible.
I finally found that SACS drawing. Thanks for sharing where to find it.
Yes, any of my Blog readers are free to send me links. I will read them, but I will not post them here.
I never leave a battery charger on, after the battery has reached full charge, to avoid any possible problems.
Charging batteries once a month may or may not be often enough. A 12 Volt battery should not be allowed to go below 12.3 volts for best battery life.
So, you should use a digital volt meter on a Multi-Meter to check each battery’s voltage every week, until you establish each battery’s required recharge interval.
A fully charged 12 volt battery is 12.6 to 13.0 volts. Ideally, you should put a battery on a charger when it gets down to 12.4 to 12.5 volts.
Mr. Rat I run QSFS in all my vehicles right now. In one of my cars it’s tuned to run the local E85, but actually it E65. My engine builder for that car keeps telling me to run a 5W40 weight because of the alcohol will thin the oil. What’s the best ranked 5W40 on your list?
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Hi there,
E-Fuels are terrible “LOW PERFORMANCE” fuels, that are THE WORST fuels available. Everything about them is negative, just like everything is negative about EV’s (electric vehicles), which are THE WORST vehicles ever created.
There are claimed advantages of E-Fuels.
1. They cost less, which is true.
2. They reduce emissions, which European Studies say is NOT true.
If you are in serious need of saving fuel costs, then that’s your call. Otherwise, no one should ever run E-Fuels.
The alcohol in E-Fuels provides about 30% LESS ENERGY than gasoline. So, in so-called Flex-Fuel vehicles, simply putting E-Fuel in the tank, will result in a LOSS of HP, and a LOSS of MPG. The ONLY benefit is saving money on fuel costs.
But, you will spend more money on oil changes, because the motor oil dilution, and corrosive properties of E-Fuels requires changing the oil AT LEAST TWICE AS OFTEN as you normally would. On top of all that, engine wear protection is REDUCED from the oil being diluted.
Since you say your vehicle is “tuned” to run E-Fuel, then you are probably aware that it is running terribly rich mixtures, in order to make more power than it normally would with such poor performing E-Fuels. But, that burns MORE fuel, and is illegal tampering on Emissions controlled street vehicles. And to make matters even worse, using extra rich E-Fuel mixtures, seriously INCREASES the motor oil dilution, which DECREASES engine wear protection, and INCREASES the corrosion issue.
So, unless your vehicle is a dedicated race vehicle, you should do yourself a favor, and go back to running gasoline.
You should read my Tech Article #72 on the downsides of E-Fuels.
CONCLUSION
If you are determined to run E-Fuels in a street vehicle, no matter how bad that decision is, I recommend the following oil change intervals using proper 5W30, rather than the poor choice of 5W40:
For normal daily driven Flex-Fuel vehicles running oil diluting, wear increasing, and highly corrosive E-Fuels – change the oil AT LEAST every 2,500 miles, rather than the normal 5,000 miles if you were using straight gasoline.
For vehicles “tuned” to run extremely rich, oil diluting, wear increasing, and highly corrosive E-Fuels – change the oil AT LEAST every 1,250 miles.
As you can see, EVERYTHING is negative about running terrible E-Fuels. Do NOT believe anyone who tells you how great E-Fuels are in street vehicles. Because they have no idea what they are talking about.
I was wondering if you had any recommendations on protecting an ICE car which we would have to store in an unheated garage during the Winter for a month or more. I’ve read that the oil and filter should be replaced to remove oil contaminants and then running the engine to get the fresh oil throughout the engine before putting in storage. Then upon return, some also recommend that the oil and filter should be replaced again before taking it out of storage. This second change seem like overkill though.
I’m also planning on putting the 12 volt battery on my NOCO Genius G750, 0.75 amp trickle charger, fill the gas tank, inflate the tires to 45 psi to prevent flat spotting and disengage the parking brake.
Your recommendations would be much appreciated!
Thanks!
Doug
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Hi Doug,
Most of your thoughts/plans are a good idea. 👍
And yes, you are correct, you do NOT need to change the oil and oil filter again when you take it out of storage, as long as you drive the vehicle for at least 30 to 45 minutes with the new oil and oil filter, before parking it for the winter. That will boil off any normal condensation, which you do NOT want mixed in with your oil over the winter.
However, the one thing I would suggest reconsidering, is leaving a charger on it indefinitely and unattended. I never do that myself, and I do not recommend doing that.
Because small generally inexpensive electronics made overseas are not always reliable or safe. So, if you leave them on indefinitely and unattended, you risk a fire hazard that could burn the vehicle and the building it is in, to the ground. And if that is connected to your house, anyone in it could be in grave danger.
I only put battery chargers on if I am in the area to keep an eye on them. And I recommend others do the same, just to be safe. For that reason, I never use a trickle charger. I use a 6 or 7 amp charger for maybe 1.5 hours, once every week or two as needed.
A 12 Volt battery should not be allowed to go below 12.3 volts for best battery life. So, you should use a Digital volt meter on a Digital Multi-Meter to check the battery’s voltage every week, until you establish the battery’s required recharge interval.
A fully charged 12 volt battery is 12.6 to 13.0 volts. Ideally, you should put a battery on a charger when it gets down to 12.4 to 12.5 volts.
Hi 540 Rat: I almost hate to ask this but there I go thinking again… If one like me does not start their new vehicle very often, I am talking about my 2019 Ram Regular cab , short wide box in very pretty patriotic blue, it does not even have 6000 miles yet. Well if I put 5% prolong with the QSFS 5W30, , do you think that is a bad idea? Thank you for all you do.
Douglas
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Hi again Douglas,
I’m surprised you haven’t read enough of my Blog by now, to already know the answer to that question.
But, it is a good thing you asked about that, before doing it. Using Prolong Engine Treatment is a “HORRIBLE” idea. Its chlorine can cause engine bearing corrosion. So, it should NEVER EVER be used!!! That product should not even be on the market.
Aftermarket motor oil additives should NEVER EVER be used. Because in addition to any direct problems they create, they upset the carefully balanced factory additive package, making the oil worse OVERALL than it was to begin with. If you are using a motor oil that needs help, you have selected the WRONG motor oil.
The 5W30 QSFS (Quaker State Full Synthetic), API SP, is by far THE BEST motor oil ever available. So, it does NOT need any help. Just use it as it comes right out of the bottle.
Morning
I need to check my transmission fluid.
If it’s low and needs some added what do you suggest to use? I was told ATF 4.
Dodge Ram 2002 3500 5 speed manual transmission thanks
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Hi there,
Your manual transmission is designated an NV4500. Its factory-fill was 75W85 GL4 gear oil (“NOT” GL4/GL5!!!). It must be GL4 gear oil “ONLY”.
GL5 can damage manual transmissions. GL4/GL5 is a designation for differentials NOT for manual transmissions.
That factory-fill 75W85 GL4 gear oil, provided good wear protection for all types of usage, including SEVERE usage.
That is what I would recommend using. But, if you don’t know what is in there now, then drain it all out, and refill with new 75W85 GL4 gear oil.
You can Google 75W85 GL4 gear oil, to find what’s available. But, make sure what you choose is “GL4 ONLY”.
ATF+4 is thinner and provides LESS wear protection. It is only an acceptable alternative for trucks that are NOT worked hard.
I just saw your update to Tech Article #68 on Electric Vehicles. I cannot comprehend how people have such low intelligence that they would buy EVs. Because they are so badly designed, have such poor reliability, have such a short range in reality, and are so painful to live with. I just do not understand.
If gas vehicles were that bad, no one would buy them.
Keep up the great work you do.
Zenyatta
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Hi there,
Yes, generally anyone who buys an EV (electric vehicle) is either a complete idiot, or else simply ignorant of how “UNBELIEVABLY BAD” EV’s are in the real world.
Some of the biggest problems with EV’s are:
1. They are typically priced too high.
2. When the battery charge is maintained between 20% and 80% for best battery life, the real world “range” is only about “HALF” of what the US EPA Estimated Range is. The EPA Estimated Range is “intentionally” false. Because of blatant corruption, they try to make EV’s seem way better than they really are. Buyer Beware!!!
3. Cold weather battery performance and recharging capability, is “unacceptably poor”.
4. They can’t really use their A/C in “hot” weather, because it runs the battery down too quickly.
5. They can’t really use their heater in “cold” weather, because it runs the battery down too quickly.
6. Pick-up EV’s can’t really haul or tow, because doing that runs the battery down to quickly.
7. The never-ending aggravation of the time, and cost of recharging the battery, which is often more costly and ALWAYS WAY, WAY MORE TIME CONSUMING, than filling up a gas engine vehicle.
8. When the battery pack eventually fails and has to be replaced, which “naturally” is often much sooner than claimed, can cost tens of “thousands” of dollars.
9. Substantial unregulated global pollution is created in 3rd World Countries when mining materials to build EV’s. But, that is not taken into account when EV’s are claimed to be zero emissions vehicles.
The whole notion of EV’s saving the planet, is based on lies and corruption.
More specifically, people who buy EV’s, are either insane climate fanatics who don’t know, or don’t care about the truth, or they are people too dumb to research what they are getting themselves into before buying one.
Whichever is the case, they deserve what they get. And if they have any brain at all, they will suffer SEVERE buyers remorse, and end up going back to gas vehicles.
Hi RAT,
Agree to everything you ‘ve written about EVs. Even in EU, where regular gas is at an avg of 1.9€/lt (1.86$/qt at this time). In addition, Netherland faces a big problem concerning villages that are close to main motorways’ EV charger stations: frequent blackouts twice or more a day!!! That’s a proof that electric power stations are NOT capable of providing the power needed to handle the demands of the existing EV fleet in the county, that counts a percentage of 1.1% of total car fleet.
I can’t even imagine what will happen from 2035 and on, when only EVs will be on sale in the continent. Assuming that then, they will be capable of providing the electric energy needed, curious to see the price of it. Affordability will be questionable though.
I checked the transmission fluid on the my 2002 dodge 3500 5 speed.
The fluid level was good. Looks like the GL4 is pretty hard to find. Redline came up the most.
Thanks again
Been a follower since 2015 and really appreciate your blog. Thank you for what you do. This is my bible for oil reference.
I have a new 2023 6.6L duramax diesel and using your blog to find the best oil to use. I have found your list of best heavyduty diesel oils and was sad to see how poorly diesel oils performed.
I noticed 5w40 quaker euro is for diesel or gas with outstanding protection. My question is if it is safe to use without being api ck-4 and only rated api sp for gas? Or would 5w30 amsoil sig series diesel with api ck-4 but not manufacture recommended weight be a better choice?
thanks again for everything.
Alex
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Hi Alex,
You are welcome. I’m glad to read that you have been one of my many Blog followers for years, and that you really embrace the Engineering Test Data FACTS that can only be found here in my Blog. And thanks for the kind words, I appreciate that.
Keep in mind that the wear protection capability numbers are “relative”. Meaning that gas engine requirements and Heavy Duty Diesel engine requirements are apples and oranges, so they cannot be compared straight across.
Gas engine components are “smaller” than comparable Heavy Duty Diesel engine components. So, gas engine components see “higher” psi loading, therefore they need “higher” psi motor oil for adequate protection.
On the other hand, Heavy Duty Diesel engine components are “LARGER” than comparable gas engine components. So, Heavy Duty Diesel engine components see “lower” psi loading, therefore they can operate just fine with “lower” psi motor oil, and still have adequate protection.
Bottom Line: Heavy Duty Diesel engine motor oils do not need to provide the high psi numbers we see in the better gas engine oils. So, choosing a Heavy Duty Diesel oil from my Tech Article #67’s Heavy Duty Diesel Oil Wear Protection Ranking List, is perfectly fine. That is why I posted it, so that Heavy Duty Diesel engine operators would have a Ranking List specifically for their application.
You should not use Euro oils, without the API CK-4 certification. Because they are only intended for gas and “lightweight” Diesel engines, NOT for Heavy Duty Diesel engines.
For Heavy Duty Diesel engines, I recommend using the “HOT” viscosity rating called for by the Manufacturer, and the CK number called for by the Manufacturer.
For example 0W40, 5W40 and 15W40 Heavy Duty Diesel oils have “COLD” viscosity ratings of 0wt, 5wt, and 15wt, respectively. When cold 0wt flows the best, 5wt flows second best, and 15wt flows the worst.
But, they “ALL” have the same “HOT” viscosity rating of 40wt. So, they all flow about the same when hot.
So, my specific recommendation for your new 2023 6.6L duramax diesel, is to use 0W40 Amsoil Max-Duty Signature Series Diesel Oil, API CK-4 motor oil. With that oil, your engine will be very well protected, and you won’t have to worry about motor oil for it again.
I stumbled on your site doing some research for the best motor oil for my new 2022 WRX.
Most everyone I saw on the forums had an opinion that their chosen oil was the best but offered no data to back it up other than it makes them feel better when they use it.
After reading much of your blog and some info posted on other sites There was no other answer than Quaker State 5W-30 full synthetic.
Just wanted to say thanks for doing the research. I’m confident I made the right choice instead of following what all the cool kids were doing.
Question: My new ride requires premium gas. Is there a fuel additive that you would recommend for high compression turbo engines?
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Hi there,
When I saw your “name/handle” that was essentially “429 Cobra Jet”, I was expecting your message would be related to that Classic American Big Block V-8.
But either way, welcome to my Blog.
Yes, Automotive Forums are full of only worthless chatter from unqualified people who do NOT know what they are talking about, and can never back-up anything they say. All they throw out is opinion, theory, and/or speculation, which are just other words for guessing. I recommend to my Blog readers that they stay off of Forums, because their bad information is worse than no information at all.
I would also say that the so-called cool kids are NOT cool at all. Because they are clueless and have no idea what they are doing. So, you will become the REAL cool kid.
You are welcome, you came to the right place. I have countless readers who left Forums, and came to my Blog for Engineering FACTS that cannot be found anywhere else.
Everything I post here, is backed-up by hard Engineering Test Data. No one else anywhere does that. So, my Blog is the only accurate and reliable Technical Information Source you will find.
Yes, 5W30 Quaker State Full Synthetic (QSFS), API SP, is my number 1 Ranked motor oil, that set an all-time BEST record for motor oil “wear protection capability” performance. I was the one who determined how well it performed. And any other sites posting info about how great 5W30 QSFS is, got their info from right here in my Blog.
You are correct, 5W30 QSFS, API SP, is the correct answer for your new WRX.
If your WRX is stock, then all you need to do is run the highest octane premium pump gas available where you live. In the US, that is typically between 91 and 93 pump octane.
Your engine should be equipped with a factory knock sensor that will prevent pinging, so no fuel additive is needed, nor recommended.
But, if you happen to have 100 octane unleaded Race Gas conveniently available to you, you could run that gas if you can tolerate $10.00 per gallon. That gas would allow your engine to produce maximum power without the knock sensor ever being activated, which would instantly roll back the power as needed to prevent pinging.
Simply put, the higher the fuel octane, the better the power…up to the engine’s design limit of course.
So glad I found your blog! Thanks for all the time, money and effort!
Don’t have any questions yet (since I’m rabbit holing on a lot of reading 😉 ) just wanted to say hi and give thanks.
I would like to share I have a Turbo’d EJ25 Subaru engine ( found in WRX/STi’s and other Subaru models) with EJ20 heads, called a “Hybrid” build, Reasoning do to my WRX not having AVCS (Subaru’s variable cam timing) so had to have the compression chambers machined to match the CC volume found on the 2.5 heads (Which are AVCS) so the compression range which match allowing me to run non AVCS cams, etc..
Anyways It’s all stock bottom end minus Cosworth pistons and the heads have Kelford cams and Supertech valve (nothing too crazy tho) and I have been running Valvoline VR1 40 and change it religiously every 2000 miles.
Since I’m always in the hunt of lessening my ignorance but realize it will never truly be 0. I found your blog (again thanks for the awesomeness) and found your Quaker State 5w 30 synthetic oil being top recommendation. I’m excited to try it but for some reason still worried to use synthetic with a built turbo car pushing 20psi and is flat tappet cams…..I know I’m sure you think I’m mental but I guess I stand corrected and do have a question after all.
Please help me be sound of mind in switching to QSFS 5w 30 I’m very sceptical of everything by nature even if I can see that it’s red I still question it. “Is it truly red?”
We’ll thanks for reading and hope your new year is going well.
-Paul
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Hi Paul,
Welcome to my Blog.
First, a word of caution about your engine. I do not personally build High Horsepower WRX/STi engines. However, from what I have been told from several different unrelated Subaru guys, at different times over the years, is that your particular engine is perfectly fine and durable when stock or close to it.
But, that its oiling system is borderline, and that its crank and rod bearings are undersize, compared to many other engines. So, the engine is not designed robust enough to handle a lot of extra power. That means, as its power level is increased, its durability and “Margin of Safety”, as we call it in Engineering, go down.
That makes it touchy about what you do with that engine as the Horsepower level is increased. And they have said that running overly thick oil is somewhat of a band aid to help prevent bottom end failures at higher Horsepower levels.
With that much feedback from multiple Subaru Hotrod guys saying the same thing, there must be some truth to all that. I don’t mean to alarm you, but I would be doing a disservice if I did not make you aware of the information that has been shared with me.
So, keep that in mind regarding what you do with your motor oil viscosity. The FIRST choice in motor oil is to select the correct viscosity for your application. And the SECOND choice is to select a Highly Ranked, High psi oil from my Wear Protection Ranking List.
There is NO problem with running a synthetic motor oil in a High Horsepower engine. In fact, synthetic motor oils are better than conventional motor oils in almost every way.
Valvoline does not list a 40wt VR1 motor oil on their Website. So, I don’t know what oil you are actually using now.
5W30 Quaker State Full Synthetic, API SP, provides THE BEST WEAR PROTECTION CAPABILITY on the market. It set an all-time HIGHEST psi value ever recoded. So, if an engine can run 5W30, that oil is BY FAR, THE BEST CHOICE.
Countless people run it in all their vehicles, from stock, to High Performance street, to dedicated Race Cars.
I run it myself in all of my well designed American engines, ranging from stock moderate Horsepower, to stock High Horsepower, to large displacement High Horsepower, to Supercharged High Horsepower. And it is THE PERFECT CHOICE for all those applications.
With a properly designed engine, all you have to do to run 5W30, is to make sure that its “HOT” oil pressure is good.
But, since your particular engine becomes more and more touchy as its Horsepower level goes up, I am hesitant to encourage you to switch to 5W30.
I don’t have any hard data on modified Subaru engines. But, if your Horsepower level has increased significantly, it is probably a better judgement call, to stay with an overly thick oil.
In your particular unique situation, it’s an example of where it is likely “better to be safe than sorry”. But of course, that is your call.
The motor makes 350H 350T to the wheels on a Mustang dyno. The motor is not drag raced or launched hard. Ever. Or see’s prolonged high RPMs. Most is normal road course use if “pushed hard”.
Now with that, using the VR1 40 “conventional” (here in Texas) the oil temps run between 180 and 210˚F. and pressure is normally 60psi at idle and 100psi at full pressure.
I was about to buy some VR1 30 “conventional” but had remembered your blog and well…here I am.
All the crank and rod bearings / clearances are stock and those clearances, per Subaru, normally call for 5w-30. From what I’ve gathered over the years.
Well, heck…. I’m tempted to run the QSFS and see if the temp and pressure is good. Would that be a good “check” to make sure it’s a good fit? If not do you have any suggestions? i.e. VR1 30, VR1 40 like i’ve been doing?
Thanks for the read and help. Much appreciated!!
-Paul
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Hi again Paul,
OK, after digging even deeper, I did finally find Valvoline straight 30wt and straight 40wt conventional VR1 motor oils that were not shown on the original listing I looked at on their Website.
But, running a straight 40wt motor oil is one of the WORST things you could do to your engine. Because straight 40wt is WAY TOO THICK for acceptable flow during cold start-up and during initial warm-up, where most wear takes place, even in Texas. By using a straight 40wt, you have been causing unnecessary wear on your engine.
If you must use an oil that thick, then it is essential that you run a “multi-viscosity” motor oil with a “hot” viscosity rating of 40wt. One example is 0W40 Amsoil Signature Series oil, API SP, which can flow well when cold because of its “0” cold viscosity rating, while still being rated as a 40wt viscosity when hot. That is why multi-viscosity motor oils have been the best choice for decades.
As I said before, I don’t have any hard data on modified Subaru engines. So, it is not clear how much your significantly increased power level has reduced your engine’s bottom end “Margin of Safety”.
Your numbers would suggest that you are already pushing your luck. But, since you don’t beat on too hard, you may be more or less OK, at least while you are using the overly thick 40wt motor oil.
Because of your particular engine’s uniquely marginal bottom end design, just checking the oil pressure with 5W30, may not be good enough to ensure reliability. So, staying with an overly thick motor oil with a 40wt “HOT” viscosity rating is probably the safest way for you to go.
In your particular case, the oil viscosity you run, is NOT about what Subaru calls for in their stock engine. Your needs changed when you significantly increased the the power level in that engine, which has a marginal bottom end design.
Desirable fully warmed-up “HOT” oil temperatures are between 215*F and 250*F. So, if your fully warmed-up “HOT” oil temperatures are between 180*F and 210*F, that is TOO COLD, which promotes sludge formation, causes motor oil dilution because normal condensation is not burned off, and leaves the thicker than it should be, which causes additional viscous drag. Remember, all motor oils thin out as they heat up.
The oil pressure numbers you showed, are WAY HIGHER THAN NORMAL for fully warmed-up, “HOT” oil pressure. Hopefully, you provided cold oil pressure numbers.
Luckily I knew about cold start with that weight and actually have a block warmer and heating pad on the oil pan running over night. Also I don’t have to run that weight.
Ultimately thats what I’m hunting for. Is that I don’t think I need that heavy of an oil and from reading your blog, I’m looking for verification / peace of mind on the idea of running a lower weight multigrade oil.
So re-reading our convo a few times. 🙂 I ended up with a question.
So QSFS 5w-30 is the big dog. In relation to the highest PSI value and you have gently pointed to (because as you mentioned, your little knowledge of the Subaru motors) be “better to be safe than sorry” with your hesitant to encourage I to switch to 5W30.
In lays my confusion. Sorry for being a PITA. but I’m more uncertain now than before, on what to do. AAHHHH. lol 🙂
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See my long response before this one. It should answer all your questions.
You are not a PITA. All questions are welcome.
My Blog is all about helping people. Because there is no other source for car guys to go to that provides FACTS.
I notice you last reply changes and increases as I post a new reply and the page reloads…hehehe.
So the cold start psi is 90-100psi after the car warms up its any where from 45-60psi at idle and while driving the psi is 100psi, which for almost 20 years has been the normal ranges I’ve seen with EJ20/25 motors.
-Paul
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It is strange that you can see a response I am working on, “while” I am working on it, “before” I click “submit”.
But, that has happened before. And sometimes a Blog reader and I, tip all over each other because of that. That is apparently only possible for the person who originally sent the message.
100 psi of “HOT” oil pressure while just driving along, is WAY HIGHER than is normal. And is WAY HIGHER than is needed. Apparently, Subaru did not design that properly either. Perhaps they upped the oil pressure as a way to help their poorly designed bottom end, because that was cheaper than redesigning the bottom end components. Companies do take less costly short cuts like that.
The oil pressure rule of thumb for a properly designed engine, even for dedicated Race Cars, is that the engine should make at least 10 psi of “HOT” oil pressure for every 1,000 rpm. For example: An engine should make at least 30 psi of “HOT” oil pressure at 3,000 rpm, etc, etc.
So, for WRX to make 100 psi “HOT” oil pressure at a moderate rpm just driving down the road, is completely off the charts, and totally unnecessary.
Generating totally unnecessary oil pressure like that, generates additional heat in the oil, and increases drag on the engine for no good reason .
Well, at this rate my “gut” (which is like the word assume but one sided) is telling me to go with VR1 10w-30.
Reason being (and I guess a missing point to all this) is my break-in oil was lucas 30w break-in oil and was also tuned on straight 30w (VR1) if I recall correctly. And has been running great with little to no noticeable oil consumption (granted I change the oil every 2000 miles on the nose) and even had the VR1 40w tested by Blackstone Labs and they gave it a great review. (They did say the viscosity was slightly low for a 40w, SUS was 69.3 and cSt was 12.77 (( virgin sample was 14.12)), but that’s it)
Well curious what you make of that. 🙂
Thanks again for the convo and info!!!
-Paul
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Just so you know, if you can run 10W30, (which is not a great choice, because its 10wt cold viscosity is thicker than ideal, thus its cold flow is not ideal) you can run 5W30 which is a much better choice, since it has better cold flow, from its 5wt cold viscosity rating.
However, 10W30 and 5W30 “BOTH” are “HOT” rated as 30wt oils. So, viscosity-wise, they equivalent when at normal operating temperature.
Specifically:
10W30 Valvoline VR1 conventional = 103,505 psi
5W30 Quaker State Full Synthetic = 152,674 psi
That means 5W30 QSFS provides a WHOPPING 58% MORE Wear Protection. So, it is the ONLY sensible choice for a 30wt multi-viscosity motor oil.
However, running a 30wt multi-viscosity motor oil in a non-stock, “High Horsepower” STi has been known to result in a blown engine because of their marginal bottom end design. They ran fine right up until they didn’t. So…
Engines do NOT need Break-In oil, no matter how High Performance they may be. That whole notion is only a MYTH perpetuated by unqualified, incompetent people who do not know what they are talking about.
The reason engines do NOT need Break-In oil is because new engine components are immediately forced to seat-in with their mating components, in order to support the load being applied to them. It is that simple. This is NOT Rocket Science.
Automakers have NOT used Break-In oils for over 100 years. Competent Mechanical Engineers do NOT use Break-In oil. Major Oil Brands do NOT offer Break-In oil. You can use a High Ranking, High psi oil from my Wear Protection Ranking List, from day one.
Only smaller US Hotrod and Racing Oil Companies offer Break-In oil. But, they do not employ competent Degreed Engineers. So, they do NOT know what they are doing.
Specifically, your Lucas 30wt Break-In oil = ONLY 49,455 psi which is laughably pathetic. You are very lucky that your engine wasn’t damaged by that oil. The fact that your engine builder used any Break-In oil in the first place, and that terrible Break-In oil in particular, proves he is totally incompetent and untrustworthy.
I stopped using Blackstone many years ago because of their bad work, which I caught them at. At first they claimed they were not wrong. But, when I proved they did it wrong, they finally admitted it, and did my test over again. After that, I could never trust them again.
Then I switched to “ALS Tribology” in Phoenix, Arizona.
So, I have shared info and offered suggestions. Now, it is up to you to decide how you want to proceed.
Thank you for the very useful information throughout the whole blog. I was wondering would it be possible to test and include LiquiMoly’s engine oils in your ranking? It is a very popular brand in South East Asia, but it seems like it is not so popular from where you are (USA I assume)
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Hi there,
You are welcome. I’m glad to read that you consider the Engineering Information here in my Blog to be very useful.
I have already tested and included LiquiMoly engine oil in my ranking. I tested 5W40 Liqui Moly Leichtlauf High Tech Oil, synthetic = 69,580 psi, which ranked it 240th out of 286 motor oils tested so far.
As you can see, it is unfortunately a very poor performing motor oil that is not worth using, when there are so many other motor oils that perform FAR BETTER.
Its performance is so bad, that I don’t bother wasting my time, effort or money, to test any more oils offered by that brand. It is not popular here in the USA because it is a bottom tier motor oil that no one is interested in.
It is somewhat surprising that it would be popular in South East Asia. But, it is likely that LiquiMoly posts false advertising and fraudulent claims about their brand there. And they could probably get away with that, because in lightly loaded, low performance engines, even oil that bad is probably good enough to not cause immediate wide ranging engine problems.
Sadly, most people automatically assume if their oil does not immediately cause their engine to seize, that it must be the greatest oil known to man. But, of course Engineering does not work off of assumption.
Hopefully, you have much better motor oils available in South East Asia.
Morning 540.
I not keen on EV vehicles, but the new Corvette, E Ray for 2024 sounds interesting as it’s all wheel drive and the rear wheels are driven by a 6.2 liter engine and the front wheels are electric.
It’s the fastest Corvette to date, at 2.5 seconds 0 to 100 km’s.
I believe up here in the great white north it’s
$134,000 Canadian.
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Hi again,
The Corvette will soon become an all-electric vehicle with no internal combustion engine (ICE) at all.
GM which is run by their utterly incompetent CEO Mary Barra, deserves to go out of business for trying to FORCE EV’s down the throats of Americans who do NOT want EV’s, which are the WORST vehicles ever created.
I saw your Blog updates with the new test data on those VP Racing oils. WOW so there are even more high zinc Racing oils that are not good enough to even consider using.
I also went to their website to see what they were claiming about their oils. They sure do brag about how wonderful their oils are. But those are only lies. And you caught them in the act.
Thank you so much for your Engineering Tests. Us regular people can only find out the truth by going to your Blog.
Zenyatta
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Hi there,
Yes, it is insane that all these High Zinc Racing Oil Companies are all so incredibly incompetent. They do not employ qualified Degreed Engineers. They have no idea what they are doing. And they just dump a bunch of zinc in their oil, and proclaim it to be the best oil known to man.
They are part of the U.S. Hotrod and Racing world that is completely brainwashed and delusional about needing obsolete and outdated high zinc oil. But, Engineering Tests have absolutely PROVEN over and over again that the idea of needing high zinc oil is only a MYTH.
Experience and Engineering Tests have clearly shown that these high zinc oils actually CAUSE engine wear, damage, and failure.
But, even though they continue to have never-ending wiped flat tappet cam lobes when using their shockingly BAD high zinc oils, they cannot grasp the thought that those pathetic oils are the root cause of those failures. So, they deserve what they get.
Those High Zinc Racing Oil Companies constantly put out false performance advertising and fraudulent performance claims, that their extremely poor performing oils do NOT provide.
The world would be far better off if those high zinc oils were removed from the market. But, until they get sued out of existence, they will still put that garbage out there.
The better API SP motor oils with their modern 21st Century formulations, are FAR, FAR, BETTER than any of those worthless high zinc oils.
Intelligent people have stopped using those pitiful High Zinc oils, and have switched mostly to 5W30 Quaker State Full Synthetic, API SP motor oil, which truly provides THE BEST WEAR PROTECTION CAPABILITY EVER RECORDED.
540 RAT - Tech Facts, NOT Myths 
540 Rat-
Many thanks for the fact-based work and testing you’re doing.
I’ve road raced a vintage 4 cylinder car for 10+ years, rebuilding the motor every 2 years or so.
With the latest motor, we utilized your test results and ran the motor from new with 5w30 QS Full Synthetic. Inspection after a recent teardown revealed cam lobes, followers and cylinder liners in FANTASTIC condition. Visibly and measurably less wear that we’ve experienced in the past with high viscosity “race oils”.
Thanks again- you are a unique human being and a blessing to those in the motorsports community willing to learn.
Mike P
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Hi Mike,
You are welcome. Thank you very much for the kind words. It’s nice to hear appreciation like that.
And thanks for the terrific feedback on your experience. It’s great to read that you have had amazing success just like many, many of my other Blog readers have had, from making use of my Engineering Test Data.
The source of the incredible results you and my other readers have benefitted from, can ONLY be found here in my Blog. All that “Real World” experience EXACTLY MATCHES what my Test Data has “Always Predicted”. And it specifically backs-up my recent Tech Article #75 on the CURE for flat tappet cam lobe failures.
That’s why I do all this. Because the Automotive World needs someplace to go that actually provides Engineering FACTS.
Take care,
540 RAT
540 RAT – How much lift/spring pressure can factory type stamped steel lifters withstand on a high performance street SBC? Let’s assume one is using longer slot rockers.
Thanks,
Rich
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Hi again Rich,
If you haven’t already, you should read my new Tech Article #75 on the “CURE” for Flat Tappet Cam Lobe Failures.
I wrote that in response to your heads-up about that YouTube Video “IDIOT” with the black shirt and shaved head, who claims to be an engine builder.
Plus, you should also read the latest Blog reader testimonial I just received about the benefits of 5W30 Quaker State Full Synthetic, API SP, being used in a race engine, which can be found where I list recent updates, and at the beginning of my Blog’s main body.
As for your question above, you said “stamped steel lifters”, but in full context it seemed clear you were talking about “stamped steel rocker arms”.
So, regarding how much lift/spring pressure factory type stamped steel, long slot “rocker arms” can withstand on a high performance street SBC (small block Chevy V-8, for those not familiar) – I don’t have any data on what their limit might be.
That is mostly because High Performance or Racing SBC’s are typically fitted with aftermarket steel or aluminum rocker arms with a needle roller fulcrum pivot and roller tip with or without needles, that eliminates the factory type half-ball fulcrum pivot and slider tip.
But, factory type SBC stamped steel, and hardened, rocker arms are actually rather strong in general. And with the incredible 5W30 Quaker State Full Synthetic, API SP motor oil, any frictional drag losses at the fulcrum pivot and at the slider tip, should be negligible.
So, you “should” be able to do just about anything you want, using factory type stamped steel, long slot rocker arms, in your SBC flat tappet Race Car, unless you decide to go full roller cam and valve train at some point.
Take care,
540 RAT
540 RAT – Yes, I mistakenly typed “lifter” where it should have been rocker. The question was posed as I’m thinking about a budget SBC 383 build for the street and have found little information on factory rockers as it seems nobody uses them anymore. I should just trust my gut as stamped rockers were all I had in the early 70’s on my hot 327 and I beat on it without mercy with no rocker failures.
You were spot on in your Article #75…I’m still laughing recalling his statements and efforts to delete any comments that did not align with his thinking. He is obviously not a follower of David Vizard’s train of thought lol…
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Hi again Rich,
For a budget SBC 383 build for the street, I expect you will be fine with factory type stamped steel rocker arms. I’ve never seen, nor even heard of any failing either.
Yeah, that YouTube moron is a laughing stock. But, he is so dumb, he doesn’t even know it. And sadly, thousands of people have watched that completely WRONG video. So, they all now believe BAD information that is a cancer in the Automotive world.
Take care,
540 RAT
540 Rat-
Thank you for sharing your knowledge. Your work is greatly appreciated!
I have been reading about the use of “thick” oils in air cooled engines in section 69 I am left with a question. Can it be assumed that the 10w60 dirt bike oil Amsoil sells would be preferred over their 10w50 option? Or is there a point where the higher weight would start to cause issue?
Thank you.
Cheers!
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Hi Jake,
Here’s a little more clarification. For air-cooled engines:
XW50 is the “ideal/recommended/preferred”MINIMUM viscosity.
XW60 is the “acceptable” MAXIMUM viscosity.
So, any viscosity in that overall range will work well enough, which provides air-cooled engine operators with more choices.
But, when choosing between 10W50 and 10W60 viscosities, 10W50 is “PREFERRED” because of its BETTER flow characteristics.
Take care,
540 RAT
Dear 540 RAT,
Your blog is the only site for oil info that i trust. Thank you so much for the information you shared.
For your info, i drive a Honda Accord with a K24A engine displacing 2.4 liters with a rev limit of 8200 rpm. From Honda manual, it is stated to use 5w40 engine oil.
But i usually see users of these engines in the USA, uses 5w30 engine oil. And i really want to try the spectacular Quaker State FS 5w-30 engine oil due to your test results.
The problem is i live in tropical South East Asia where the ambient temperature can reach 38 to 40 degrees Celsius (100 to 104*F).
What do you think ? Should i use the Quaker State FS ?
Thank you so much, sir..
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Hi there,
With a water-cooled vehicle, temperatures that high should not be a big concern. So, if your cooling system is in good condition, working properly, and preventing your engine from overheating, you should be able to use 5W30 motor oil with no worries at all.
Plus, your engine may well have an oil cooler, which of course will help also. When you first switch to the thinner and “IDEAL” 5W30, just initially verify that there is no indication of low oil pressure at any rpm, after the engine is fully warmed-up. It should be fine, but that is just a double check that all is well.
The factory calls for 5W40 which is THICKER than ideal, because they INCORRECTLY believe that thicker oil provides better wear protection. But, Engineering Tests have PROVEN over and over again, that viscosity has NOTHING to do with wear protection capability.
A motor oil’s wear protection capability is determined ONLY by its factory additive package, which includes the extreme pressure, anti-wear components, which have NOTHING to do with viscosity.
5W30 Quaker State Full Synthetic, API SP is THE BEST performing motor oil on the market today. It is a great choice for your Accord.
Take care,
540 RAT
Hi 540 Rat,
I saw your updated Tech Article 73 about how we can really use those new Super High Tech Smart Battery Chargers that are so badly designed.
I have held off on getting a battery charger because they don’t work right. But now thanks to your awesome work around plan, we can buy one of those Chargers and use it just fine. That’s a big load off my mind since I needed a battery charger.
Thanks for all the Engineering work you do to keep us going. We would be lost without you.
Zenyatta
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Hi there,
You are welcome. And thanks for the kind words.
I’m glad I could help.
Take care,
540 RAT
Can you post shipping information so as to send you several products to test?
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Well, let’s see. Your message is:
– Oddly unfriendly compared to the typical messages I receive.
– Cold and very presumptuous that I would even justify all the time and effort it would take to test products that you decided I should test.
– Disrespectful of my schedule and whether or not I would even agree to accept your products to test.
– Unacceptable for not stating what products you want tested, how many you want tested, or why you want them tested.
– The kind of strangely vague request I get from bad people who are troublemakers with ulterior motives, which prompted me to stop accepting oils from all readers for testing, a few years ago. The people who behave in that suspicious manner, ruin it for all the normal good people.
So for those reasons, I will NOT be testing any products for you, assuming that is even really what you are up to.
540 RAT
Rat, I’m not up to anything.
Like you, I am an engineer and very succinct in my communications.
I have a Supercharged 7.0 Liter Gen III Hemi that I build and I drag race in my Challenger.
I have found that heavier weight oils provide the best protection for the temperatures and duty cycle that my engine sees.
You have tested heavier weight oils to include:
0W40 – Mobil 1 FS
5W50 – Mobil 1 FSX2
5W50 – Amsoil Signature Series
20W50 – Amsoil Z-Rod
20W50 – Valvoline VR1 Racing Oil (syn and conv)
20W50 – Castrol GTX
I have used the oils listed below, currently and in the past and was wanting to send you a quart of each to test to see how each compares to those that you have tested.
0W40 – Amsoil Signature Series
10W40 – Valvoline Daily Protection
10W40 – Castrol GTX
I reached out to you in 2018 with the same quesiton and you shared with me that the bottles had to be in leak proof bags inside the shipping box and to notify you so that the company that recieved your packages could be make aware of their arrival – or something very close to that.
I was never able to send them to you because they say, life got in the way. Among a divorce, buying and selling two houses, two sons graduating high school and going off the college, I was never able to get them in the mail.
Since that time you added several of the heavier weight oils listed above to your tests and blog and have added section 69 regarding heavier weight oils in air cooled engines – which had piqued my curiosity and thought now that the dust has settled in my life, I would make time to send you a quart of each
0W40 – Amsoil Signature Series
10W40 – Valvoline Daily Protection
10W40 – Castrol GTX
to test and compare.
respectfully-
rich scotto
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Rich,
It would have been very helpful if you had included at least some of your story in your previous message.
As for motor oil, you have apparently missed much of 4+ years of Engineering Test Data. Here’s a very short reference:
Many people INCORRECTLY assume that thicker oils provide better wear protection. But, Engineering Tests have PROVEN over and over again, that viscosity has NO INVOLVEMENT with wear protection or temperature capability.
A motor oil’s wear protection capability and its temperature capability are determined ONLY by its factory additive package, which includes the extreme pressure, anti-wear components, and the chemistry formulation for withstanding higher temps. And they have NOTHING to do with viscosity.
Viscosity primarily effects oil pressure and flow rates, but NOT wear protection, and NOT temperature capability. So, it is physically impossible for thicker oils to provide better protection and temperature capability in your engine. So, it would be interesting to know what hard data you have to support your claim about that.
So, unless you have sloppy loose clearances and a standard volume oil pump, which could necessitate thicker oil, you have been using the WRONG oils.
5W30 is “THE IDEAL OVERALL VISCOSITY” for most water-cooled, gasoline powered engines. It provides THE BEST OVERALL flow, lubrication and cooling. It also creates less air bubbles/foaming, and less viscous drag than thicker oils. So, there is a HP benefit to be had at the track. And on top of all that, THE BEST wear protection capability can also be found in 5W30.
My current All-Time number 1 motor oil, out of 284 motor oils tested so far, that set the HIGHEST WEAR PROTECTION CAPABILITY EVER RECORDED, is 5W30 Quaker State Full Synthetic, API SP, with an EXTREMELY IMPRESSIVE 152,674 psi. And its onset of thermal breakdown was an impressive 290*F.
It is FAR BETTER than any Racing Oil, any high zinc oil, any modern street oil, or any other motor oil on the market today PERIOD!!! I highly recommend it to my readers. Because my Blog is based on providing information on what is BEST, not on what we can just get by with.
If you haven’t read it already, you should read my Tech Article #74 on the ULTIMATE Motor Oil SMACKDOWN.
I use 5W30 Quaker State Full Synthetic, API SP in all of my own engines from 800 HP on down to to stock daily driver vehicles, which includes Supercharged and traditional flat tappet engines.
And MANY of my Blog readers use it as well, in everything from economy cars, to normal daily drivers, to High Performance street cars, to Drag Cars, some with Superchargers, Turbochargers, Hemi’s and flat tappet engines.
And FYI, several years ago I caught Castrol, now owned by BP, greatly reducing their products wear protection capability, across the board. No doubt to cut costs and maximize profits. I was so disgusted with them, that I stopped using their products, I stopped recommending their products, and I stopped wasting my time testing their products. Buyer beware!!!
XW50 and XW60 motor oils are TOO THICK to be suitable for anything but “air-cooled” engines. Because those oils start out thick enough, that when those oils get much hotter and thinner in air-cooled engines that cannot control their oil temps, those oils still won’t be dangerously too thin to protect the engines.
XW40 motor oils are THICKER THAN IDEAL for water-cooled, gasoline engines. And they are THINNER THAN IDEAL for air-cooled engines. They really are NOT the best choice for much of anything. So, I have no plans to waste my time and effort on testing any more XW40 gas engine motor oils.
You should do yourself a favor, and switch to 5W30 Quaker State Full Synthetic, API SP. You can even get good prices on it at Walmart. Just make sure that your engine is capable of producing acceptable “HOT” operating temperature oil pressure with the thinner 5W30. Acceptable hot oil pressure indicates that your oiling system is capable of maintaining the critical hydrodynamic liquid oil wedge in your main and rod bearings.
Take care,
540 RAT
540
It has been a little while since I last posted a question. A few moths ago I traded in my Jeep Wrangler JLU 3.6 for a new Jeep Gladiator. I needed a truck and they offered me more than I could have imagined for my old Jeep.
Since finding your blog, I have been a true believer about 0w20 being too thin and 5w30 being the best to use.
I always have the same routine when I get a new vehicle. I run it up to around a 1000 miles and dump the factory fill. This Gladiator was no exception. I put in 5 qts of 5w30 Quaker State Full Synthetic and a new Purolator cartridge filter at 1k.
What are your thoughts of dumping the factory fill early and putting in fresh oil with a new filter?
This truck is not my daily driver, I put 600-700 miles a month on it. I even run non-ethanol gas in it. I don’t want the ethanol to cause any issues from not driving it daily.
I will be changing the oil again at 5k and it currently has less than 2k miles on it. Would the Quaker State Full Synthetic be good for 5-7k almost 1 year oil change intervals or would your #2 ranked Amsoil 5w30 Signature Series be a better fit?
I hope you and yours have a Merry Christmas.
Thanks,
Jonathan
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Hi again Jonathan,
You cannot change motor oil too often. So, it is perfectly fine to dump the factory-fill oil EARLY and then put in fresh oil and a new oil filter.
I do the same thing myself. Though I usually do it as soon as I can get to it, which is usually at around 100 miles or so.
NOTE: For anyone reading this – Engineering evaluations have confirmed over and over again, that precision-built engines using quality parts, break-in immediately on their own, when they are fired up for the first time. Because components are “forced” to seat-in instantly in order to carry the load applied to them.
So, there is no “break-in” concern about draining factory-fill oil EARLY. Because Factories do NOT need, and do NOT use any kind of break-in oil.
The whole notion of Break-In is only a MYTH, that is perpetuated by incompetent, non-Engineers on worthless Automotive Forums. The FACT is, it simply does NOT matter how a new engine is initially operated.
You can run brand new engines slow and easy initially, or you can run them hard and fast initially, and it makes absolutely NO difference what so ever. So, there is NO particular “Break-In” procedure that has to be followed, no matter what anyone else tells you.
Keep in mind that countless “millions” of non-enthusiast people have purchased new vehicles over countless decades, who have never even heard the term “Break-In”. So, they have done nothing special for so-called “Break-In”. They just drove their vehicles how they normally use them. That’s it!!! And those engines did not have any problems. Only enthusiasts on worthless Automotive Forums, INCORRECTLY “think” they need to perform some ridiculous “Break-In” procedure.
BOTTOM LINE:
The FACT is, you can simply run brand new engines from day one, the way you plan to normally operate them. This holds true as long as engines are built properly, and use “good performance” motor oils. Though newly built traditional flat tappet engines should use only “high performance” motor oils.
And for the record, so-called “Break-In” oils marketed to Hotrodders and Racers, are THE WORST PERFORMING motor oils I have ever tested. They are so bad, that they should NEVER EVER be used.
In FACT, a high psi, highly ranked oil from my “Wear Protection Ranking List”, is THE BEST motor oil to use for firing-up a brand new engine for the first time, and then continue on with that same oil.
I generally do NOT recommend extended drain intervals, no matter what oil is used.
– For “normally driven” vehicles that are daily drivers or if they sit a lot, I recommend changing the oil and oil filter at 5,000 miles max or 1 year, whichever comes first.
– For vehicles that are subjected to “severe and/or aggressive” operation much of the time, I recommend changing the oil and oil filter at 3,000 miles max or 1 year, whichever comes first.
THE BEST performing motor oil on the market, regarding “wear protection capability”, which is THE MOST IMPORTANT PROPERTY of any motor oil, is 5W30 Quaker State Full Synthetic, API SP. It is readily available, especially at Walmart, where you can also get very good prices on it. So, choosing this oil is a no brainer.
5W30 Amsoil Signature Series, API SP, is the 2nd best motor oil on the market. You have to order it, and it is very expensive. So, there is no good reason to choose it, unless for some reason you cannot get the 5W30 Quaker State Full Synthetic motor oil.
Merry Christmas to you as well,
540 RAT
Hi again 540 RAT,
I just saw in the new NHRA National Dragster Magazine, a big ad for VP Racing Fuels’ line of VP Racing Lubricants. I didn’t even know they had lubricants.
I went to their website to check out what they have. And they sound really, really good, like their lubricants are the best ever created.
I was wondering if you might have any plans to test their lubricants, to see if they are as good as they claim?
Thanks for providing us with the facts. Keep up your great work you do.
Zenyatta
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Hi there,
VP Racing “Lubricants” is not widely known, the way VP Racing “Fuels” is. But, their lubricants division is not new. It began back around 2015 when VP Racing Fuels contracted Maverick Performance Products to create lubricants, and handle that division for them.
But, I never paid any attention to their high zinc racing lubricants. Because high zinc racing lubricants have a reputation for being among the WORST motor oils on the market, for wear protection capability.
These oil companies have NO IDEA what they are doing. They just dump a huge amount of the last century’s outdated, obsolete zinc in their oil, and proclaim it the best oil available.
However, Engineering Tests have shown over and over again, that their bragging is only false advertising and fraudulent claims. Buyer beware!!!
No one in their right mind would ever use these pathetic, extremely poor performing high zinc oils. But, there is no shortage of Hotrodders, Racers, and Cam Companies who are brainwashed about needing high zinc oil.
So, they believe that nonsense, and continue to use those pitiful oils. So, they continue to have oil related problems, including wiped flat tappet cam lobes. And sadly they do not get a clue how bad those high zinc oils are. You just can’t make this stuff up.
So, I more or less forgot about VP Racing Lubricants. Then I saw that new National Dragster ad also. That reminder prompted me to go to their website and see what they had to say. And yes their claims are HUGE.
Then I reconsidered, and decided to test some of their lubricants after all. I don’t expect much from them, because of past experience with high zinc racing oils. And a perfect example of that is the utter FAILURE of the Driven high zinc Racing oil that I recently tested.
But, I have a huge number of Hotrodder and Racer Blog readers, who could benefit from factual Engineering Test Data on those VP Racing Lubricants. And that made it justifiable for me to go to the trouble of testing them.
Here are the VP Racing Lubricants I’ll be testing;
– 5W30 VP Pro Grade Full Synthetic Racing Oil, with a WHOPPING 2,000 ppm zinc, and a WHOPPING 1,810 ppm phosphorus. Those insanely high levels prove they have no idea what they are doing. Because truly well formulated 21st century oils do NOT need that.
– 10W40 VP Racing High Zinc Break-in engine oil
– VP Racing Hi-Performance 75W90 LS Full Synthetic GL-5 Gear Oil
I should probably have the results posted in two or three weeks.
Take care,
540 RAT
Hello Rat!
I’m kind of in a weird situation. I’ve been using QSFS 5w30 on my vehicles in the last couple of years now and I really like it! But the other day, I had my ’08 Jeep Grand Cherokee v6 3.7l, sitting outside the garage(which normally isn’t) for a couple of hours. It happened to be -4 degrees F. I started it up to drive it in the garage and it sounded horrible, lots ticking noise and sputtering around coming from the top end. I turned the engine off immediately cause it sounded like oil wasn’t getting to the top end fast enough! The oil pressure gauge showed that even was up to pressure. So I started it again quickly limped it into the garage and shut it off again. I thought that maybe the filter was restricting. I’m using a Motorcraft filter. This hasn’t been a previous problem for me. We had a cold snap here in Iowa. I haven’t checked it out since we left for Christmas break. My question, I know you probably don’t recommend it, but I’m thinking of creating a “witch’s brew”for the winter time. My son is driving this vehicle to school and it’ll be sitting outside in the cold all day and I don’t want this to happen to him while he’s at school. I’m thinking of 50/50 QSFS 0w20 and 5w30, making it 2.5w25ish?(does that sound right?) because it’s the same brand, I thought this should be more compatible formulation wise. Or go with 50/50, Mobil 1 Europe formula 0w40 and QSFS 5w30, making it a 2.5w30ish.(their formulation are probably less compatible?) Both are readily available. I know I could go with a lower ranking oil on your list, but I’d rather not. Your thoughts are greatly appreciated! Thank you! -Joe S.
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Hi again Joe,
Sorry to hear about your situation, which sounds very odd. If it ran and sounded fine only a couple of hours earlier, there is no reason why a 5W cold rated oil should have a flow problem, even at that cold temperature.
The oil passages would still have oil in them. All components would still be coated with oil. And oil should start flowing very quickly without issue. The oil filter would not be restricting because the oil filter bypass valve would open.
Engines don’t usually have a problem like that, much less one that only sat for a couple of hours.
You were not clear about the oil pressure, with the way you worded it. So, I’m not sure what you were trying to say there. Did it have oil pressure, or did it not have oil pressure?
From the way you described the problem, it sounded more like a mechanical engine problem than an oil flow problem.
But, trying a thinner cold rated oil would be the easiest and quickest thing to do. Though there is not a huge difference between 0W and 5W cold rated oils.
As for what oil to use, I would try 0W30 Amsoil Signature Series. But, you probably would not be able to get it quick enough. So, just get a 0W30 that you can find immediately, and give it a try.
For a normal daily driver that is just driven around modestly, it is not that critical to use a high performance oil. But, you could revisit that after winter.
And what happened to “Global Warming” that radical fanatics are always screaming about?
Good Luck,
540 RAT
Hello Rat.
Thanks for your response! Yeah! Global warming is a myth!
The oil pressure gauge did indicate good oil pressure during the start up. I just thought the whole thing seemed rather odd as well! I’ll figure something out when I get back.
A different question. Does a dirty or restricted air filter cause the engine to consume more oil? Causing negative pressure and sucking it past the rings in the cylinders?
Thanks again! -Joe S.
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Hi again,
If the engine still runs normally, the air filter is not clogged enough to cause any real concern with the engine.
However, bad valve guide seals are the most likely source for possibly passing a bit more oil with a REALLY dirty air filter.
Worn/hard old valve guide seals, worn rings/cylinders, and using overly thin motor oil, especially if it is synthetic, are the primary causes of oil consumption.
Let me know what the wind-up was with your rattling engine.
Take care,
540 RAT
Sorry. I should have clarified. The latter question was related to a completely different situation. I have another vehicle that seems to be using more oil than normal. Especially when we’re traveling. I added a total of 1.5 quarts of oil in 1300 miles. 2000 Ford Excursion with the V10. I have an aftermarket K&N CAI system on it. I replaced the K&N filter with an AEM dry filter, because the AEM filter is a little thicker material and I get tired of washing it and waiting until it dries. And I thought it would filter better than the K&N. With the K&N filter installed, I have fine dust partials in the intake tube. I just installed the AEM filter a week ago and I wanted to compare the 2 after awhile. We live on a dusty, gravel road so I also had a pre filter wrap on both filters. I’m not sure why that would increase oil consumption? Probably totally unrelated. A year ago or so, making the exact same trip (1300 miles), it used only a half a quart of oil. Both times, using QSFS 5w30. That is why I asked if a restricted air filter could cause that. I heard that severely, dirty filters could cause that. I know mine isn’t dirty(obviously) and it shouldn’t be that restrictive! 😁 Anyway, with the timing of everything going on, it’s probably just a flucke. I hope this makes sense. Thanks again. -Joe S.
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Hi again,
Using .5 quart of 5W30 in 1,300 miles is bad enough. But, 1.5 quarts of 5W30 in 1,300 miles, only one year later is definitely “excessive” oil consumption.
I’ve run K&N air filters for many years on a number of my vehicles. And I have never seen any dust in the intake tubes. But then, I never drive on dusty gravel roads either.
Using a K&N air filter on a regular vehicle that is continually operated dusty gravel roads is probably not the best idea. I would use the stock air filter for that application, to play it safe.
Your 22 year old Excursion probably has a LOT of miles on it after all these years. Then adding to that, continuous operation on dusty gravel roads with a K&N air filter, would suggest that that the engine is most likely rather worn. Gravel dust is quite abrasive (worse than dirt dust) which is consistent with likely causing excess wear.
And such excessive oil consumption would confirm that the engine is not in good shape. If it is not leaking quite a bit of oil, then it is burning it. If the engine has been breathing in abrasive gravel dust into the intake system, the best oil in the world cannot save your engine from extra wear.
So, you are stuck with “what to do now about that excessive oil consumption”. You have 4 choices:
1. Do nothing, and just continue adding oil as needed.
2. Put the intake system back to stock with a stock air filter to prevent further wear, and add oil as needed.
3. Use the next thicker “conventional” motor oil, such XW40, which will help reduce oil consumption.
4. Perform a proper “Leak Down Test” on the engine. See my Tech Article #5 for the details. And if badly worn as expected, have the engine rebuilt.
Take care,
540 RAT
Thanks again! It seems to consume more oil on long distance trips than when I’m around home. I add between .5qt to 1qt, between oil changes (every 5,000 miles). It has 232,000 miles on the clock. I’m wondering, why the difference? I’ll put thicker oil in it when I get home. Thanks again! -Joe S.
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Hi again,
After 232,000 miles, it’s no surprise that the engine is worn enough to consume some oil, especially since it was apparently sucking some abrasive gravel dust.
It uses more oil on long trips, because it is humming along at a modest rpm more or less endlessly. So, that is a much higher average rpm per hour than you would typically see just driving around where you live.
Take care,
540 RAT
Hi RAT,
Just type to wish to you and your beloved ones Merry Christmas, as to thank you once again for your contribution in engineering through so much time and effort spent.
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Hi again Emmanouil,
Thank you very much for the well wishes and kind words.
Merry Christmas to you and your family as well.
Happy Holidays,
540 RAT
540 RAT –
We have seen the data on Oil Extreme concentrate in your tests and I understand it is not always an improvement depending on the oil it is mixed with.
I know David Vizard owns stock in this company…since they are now marketing their own branded oil I was wondering if you had ever tested these?
Thanks, Rich
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Hi again Rich,
The Oil Extreme Company has been Marketing their own “motor oil” for many years now. And yes, several years back, I tested their 5W30 Oil Extreme “Motor Oil”, API SM, synthetic. It is currently ranked number 51 on my Wear Protection Ranking List, with 110,286 psi.
At the time I tested it, it was a decent oil to use. But, today’s top performing newer API SP motor oils have left that Oil Extreme “Motor Oil” far behind.
The 5W30 Quaker State Full Synthetic, API SP motor oil you are using now, produced an amazing 152,674 psi, and is ranked “NUMBER 1” out of 284 motor oils tested so far. It is BY FAR, “KING” of the Hill. It provides a WHOPPING 38% MORE wear protection capability than that Oil Extreme “motor oil”.
Take care,
540 RAT
Thanks 540 RAT – Given the selling price of Oil Extreme’s product line I question David’s investment strategy. It appears to be a good oil, but when you have to compete in the marketplace it seems your product had better be nothing short of outstanding to justify those prices. I would venture a guess that this oil line is being purchased mainly by those who associate the Vizard name and his endorsement. Why spend more on a product when there are better alternatives available that need no crutches?
Thanks,
Rich
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Hi Rich,
You are probably right about all that. When Vizard first got involved with Oil Extreme was a long time ago, when it was among the better motor oils. So, that made sense at the time.
But, times have changed and the newer Quaker State Full Synthetic and Amsoil Signature Series oils have set new records for outstanding “wear protection capability” performance, which is a motor oil’s MOST IMPORTANT PROPERTY.
That means Oil Extreme “motor oil” is no longer among the better motor oils worth considering.
Take care,
540 RAT
Good morning, 540 RAT,
I hope you had a good Christmas and will have a good start to the New Year coming up in a few days here.
I’m curious, do companies specifically look for Mechanical Engineering students that are in their Junior year or higher to fill internship positions?
I have a current internship, but I’m running out of things to learn and I don’t want to be a project engineer at a job shop as my career. I know I have to build experience somehow.
Also, would some kind of Python programming certification be useful to me?
Thanks in advance,
Sam
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Hi again Sam,
I have no involvement with HR (Human Resources). So, I am not in a position to offer any advice, nor information on Intern hiring. Plus, that could well vary from Company to Company.
Python programming is not something that Mechanical Engineers would normally use in their job. So, having a Certification for that, would not help you in a normal Mechanical Engineering job at all. And I can’t imagine it could help in any way on your Resume either.
Your time would be far better spent building up your experience in Computer Modeling, such as CATIA, Unigraphics, etc. Because Mechanical Engineers who actually design components, use Computer Modeling everyday. Plus, that WOULD look great on your Resume.
Happy New Year,
540 RAT
Hi 540 Rat,
Just went through your oil and oil filter articles and will be switching to Quaker State from Mobil 1. As for the oil filter my Lexus IS300 calls for the Motorcraft FL-910S vs the ones you have tested. Will that be better then the current Mobil 1 filter I use?
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Hi John,
Yes, the Motorcraft FL-910S is a much better designed and manufactured oil filter than the Mobil 1 oil filter.
5W30 Quaker State Full Synthetic API SP, and the Motorcraft FL-910S oil filter, is a much better combination than Mobil 1 and Mobil 1.
Take care,
540 RAT
Could you weigh in on oil pumps. I have narrowed it down to a melling pump 10552st or maybe a 10990 pump. I will be using a dart block but not the SHP type it is above that. the 10990 is a bbc pump with 12 gears instead of 7, the 10552 uses shark tooth gears, I will not be doing the actual building, if that even matters.
Thanks so much for all you do and Happy Year.
Douglas
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Hi again Douglas,
Just so you know, gerotor type oil pumps, such as those that are offered by Titan and Moroso, are a much better, more advanced design compared to the old obsolete spur gear type oil pumps you are asking about.
The old type spur gear oil pumps are cheaper, but still work well enough for many applications, even though they are not the best.
The difference between a High Pressure oil pump and a Standard Pressure oil pump, is simply which oil pressure relief valve spring is being used.
The Standard Pressure spring is usually 60 psi, which is fine for most street operated vehicles.
The High Pressure spring is usually 70 psi, which is desirable for most high rpm racing vehicles.
As for the two spur gear (including the shark teeth design which is a variation of spur gears) oil pumps you are asking about:
– 10552st, $178 at Summit, is High Volume oil pump that produces only about 10% or so more volume than a normal standard volume oil pump, and is a High Pressure 70 psi oil pump.
– 10990, $174 at Summit, is High Volume oil pump that produces about 25% or so more volume than a normal standard volume oil pump, and is a Standard Pressure 60 psi oil pump.
CONCLUSION:
The 10552st oil pump is not a “TRUE High Volume” oil pump because it ONLY produces about 10% more volume than a stock standard volume oil pump. Therefore, it does NOT provide enough extra volume to make it worth getting. So, I would NOT select this oil pump.
The 10990 oil pump “IS” a TRUE High Volume oil pump, since it provides about 25% “more” volume than a stock standard volume oil pump. The standard pressure 60 psi relief valve spring may be fine for your application. But, if you need 70 psi, then simply swap out the relief valve spring. So, I “WOULD” select this oil pump.
A TRUE High Volume oil pump is highly desirable because higher volume provides better flow, lubrication, cooling, and allows thinner 5W30 to generate good HOT oil pressure.
Take care and Happy New Year,
540 RAT
Happy New Year Rat!!
I posted here about how my flat tappet camshaft wiped out in my 1968 383 Dart due to an inferior oil I used from Lucas for classic cars. I know better now thanks to your blog.
I know you commented on the potential damage for engines that sit for a long period due to dry startup.
I came across an oil preluber on Summit Auto Racing that operates on air pressure forcing oil throughout the engine. It attaches to the sending unit hole and pumps oil through the entire engine prior to startup.
Allstar Performance Oil Pressure Primer Tanks ALL10535 it sells for $169.99
It seems like a good idea. Your thoughts would be appreciated.
Thanks for helping so many!! Gary
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Hi Gary,
Yes, oil accumulators have been around for many years, from various Manufacturers. And they are a GREAT idea for engines that sit a lot. I recommend 3 quart oil accumulators for V-8 engines.
Happy New Year to you as well,
540 RAT
Hello Mr. Rat,
A mechanic told me that conventional oils leave a coating of varnish on the wear surfaces of an engine and that acts as a protection in those first few seconds at start up. Is there any truth to that?
Dean
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Hi again Dean,
No. Never believe anything any mechanic, engine builder, Cam Company, or Automotive Forum ever says about motor oil. Because they have “no idea” what they are talking about.
They are clueless about the FACTS. They just throw out their “belief” with no data at all to back-up what they say.
Anything ever said about motor oil without supporting “back-up” data, is only opinion/speculation/guessing.
Everything I post here in my Engineering Blog, is backed-up by hard Engineering Test Data. You will not find reliable information anywhere except right here in my Blog.
Take care,
540 RAT
Hi Rat,
I hope you had a good Christmas and new year?
I was just recently asked a question about Redline oil, and as usual i came here to check what you’d tested, only to find that it’s one of the few you have yet to cover. I did see a race version of their oil tested, showing what you might expect, a very short lifecycle.
So i went to their website and had a quick look; the comment i was asked about was referring to people having success in combatting the “hemi tick”, which made me curious. I don’t fully understand all the conditions of that affliction, but as it’s valvetrain, i assumed a thicker oil would be one of the things that could affect that.
Looking at both their regular “high performance” line and their “professional series” oil, which seems to be for OEM certified use, the specs for the 5w30 oil, do both show a viscosity at the upper end of the 30 spec – 11.9 and 11.0 respectively. The high performance oil’s viscosity being higher than our favourite 5w30, QSFS’s 11.6.
Now we both know viscosity doesn’t represent protection, but would affect valvetrain noise and obviously oil pressure.
However, looking at the High Performance i saw one of their taglines as slightly strange:
“Thicker oil film at operating temperature than a petroleum 10W40”
That’s both ambiguous enough, and yet interesting enough to make me stop – one can only assume that by “petroleum 10W40” they mean a conventional oil, but that their 5w30 should be a higher film strength than the 40 was also interesting. Makes me wonder how they’re testing film strength in this aspect.
Now, not even their “Professional series” for OEM’s is listed as anything newer than SN Plus, but does seem to be ILSAC GF5, so they at least paid for that approval, suggesting it’s likely to be API SP.
Their fancier High Performance oil is rated only up to the API SN standard, with it’s only other redeeming (advertised) features being the ‘fancy’ base oils being used and the other claims of their high quality polyol base stocks being thicker and naturally multigrade…..
That last part sounds, interesting.
Anyway, i thought everyone might find this interesting, and whilst we have no data on this stuff, it’s another one of those big performance claim oil brands like the one you recently tested, but from what i think is a larger brand.
Thanks
Maxx
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Happy New Year Maxx,
I have tested 3 different Red Line motor oils. Here they are with their Ranking number from my Wear Protection Ranking List, and the psi value they produced:
*** THE HIGHER THE PSI VALUE, THE BETTER THE WEAR PROTECTION CAPABILITY ***
#105. 30wt Red Line Racing Oil = 96,470 psi, for short term Racing ONLY
#137. 5W30 Red Line, API SN = 91,028 psi
#164. 15W40 Red Line Diesel Oil = 85,663 psi
So as you can see, their wear protection capability performance, which is THE MOST IMPORTANT PROPERTY of any motor oil, is NOT impressive at all.
This is just another small-ish Motor Oil brand that is mostly false advertising and fraudulent claims. It is NOT a good enough brand to even consider, when there are SO MANY FAR BETTER performing motor oils readily available. So, I don’t even waste my time, effort, or money to test Red Line oils anymore.
There is NO REASON to look beyond my top two ranked motor oils, which are:
#1. 5W30 Quaker State Full Synthetic (QSFS) API SP = 152,674 psi, which provides a “WHOPPING 68% MORE” wear protection capability than 5W30 Red Line, API SN motor oil.
#2. 5W30 Amsoil Signature Series, API SP = 141,851 psi, which provides a “WHOPPING 56% MORE” wear protection capability than 5W30 Red Line, API SN motor oil.
Yes, petroleum means conventional.
That “Tagline” is bogus. It is NOT “thicker” oil film. They are trying to say a “Stronger” or “Better” oil film, which refers to a “higher psi film strength”.
Viscosity is NOT involved with an oil’s film strength. So, it is very common for better 5W30 motor oils to have a higher psi film strength than 10W40 oils.
No, API SP oils go hand in hand with GF-6A oils, NOT GF-5 oils.
Yes, viscosity would typically have the biggest affect on “ticking” noises, as well as oil pressure.
The numbers you provided on viscosity shows:
Their High Performance oil is ONLY 3% thicker than QSFS.
And their Professional Series is 5% thinner than QSFS.
So once again, it is a no-brainer that OVERALL, 5W30 QSFS is BY FAR THE BEST CHOICE.
Take care,
540 RAT
Hi Rat540,
Love your work. I’ve been a devoted user of first, Quaker State Ultimate Durability, and then Full Synthetic as it was reformulated in 2020/2021.
I just bought another batch of Full Synthetic 5W-30 from Walmart and noticed that the labels had changed.
The one left over bottle from October 2021 had GM Dexos1 Gen2 certification whilst the new bottle does not say any GM approvals on the sticker label. However, it does feintly say GM Dexos1 Gen3 on the build date label printed directly on the bottle itself – happy to email you pics for clarification if needed.
Any chance you could test the latest version to check for formulation is still awesome as always?
Warm regards,
Leo.
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Hi Leo,
I’m happy to read that you are using 5W30 Quaker State Full Synthetic, API SP, which is THE BEST motor oil I have ever put through my Engineering Torture Test on motor oil.
No, the change from Gen 2 to Gen 3 is such a small “GM ONLY” change, which does not apply to any other vehicles, that it does not justify the time, effort, and cost to retest the oil just for that.
I only retest oils for a significant change that applies to all vehicles, such as an API change.
Take care,
540 RAT
Wow! What a terrific compilation of info you’ve collected. I’m a total oil novice just trying to figure out what oil and oil filters I should use in my two vehicles: A 1991 Toyota Previa with 340K miles on the original engine and a 2015 Subaru Crosstrek with 75K miles. From what I’ve located on your site thus far, I think I’ve settled on your recommendation for the Quaker State full synthetic oil for both vehicles, but I’m having a tough time finding which filters to use as the recommended Ford Motorcraft ones don’t appear to be available for either of my vehicles. Do you have any suggestions for me in this regard? Thanks in advance for any assistance you are able to offer. Happy 2023!
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Hi there,
I’m glad to see you like the info that is available here in my Blog. And just to be clear, I did not just “collect” the info here in my Blog. I “created” the info here in my Blog from my Engineering Test Data.
Yes, 5W30 Quaker State Full Synthetic, API SP, is an excellent choice for both of your vehicles.
If you cannot find a Motorcraft oil filter for a vehicle, then the second best choice is either Bosch or Purolator, which are equivalent.
Take care,
540 RAT
Thanks for the reply, Rat.
You caught me napping 😦 Of course GF5 is API SN/plus, my mistake mixing that one up, and of course i tried a find in page for “redline” instead of the correct listing, “red line”
137th place is not that good, is it, barely better than the Castrol entries 😀 So pretty much the only thing this 5w30 brings to the table, is viscosity, but not much more than the QSFS which is around 1/3rd the price of Red Line.
Thanks again, always a great resource here.
Thanks ever so much for your prompt response to my questions. All of the data you have created with your testing and the accompanying explanations are terrific.
I’ve got another oil filter question: is any Motorcraft filter preferable to the Bosch or Purolator?
I ask because apparently the Motorcraft FL910S is available for my older Toyota, but I haven’t found it here… maybe I missed it?
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Hi again,
Yes, Motorcraft oil filters are preferable to Bosch or Purolator oil filters.
It is not possible for me to test every last oil filter on the market, just like it is not possible for me to test every last motor oil on the market.
So, that particular Motorcraft FL910S oil filter, not being as widely used, was not included in my oil filter test Article.
Take care,
540 RAT
Hello Sir!
I’m v e r y impressed by this amazing document, years of work, I’ve been reading/studying about 80% of or so the last weekS!
I really like your “But’s” and use of CAPS LOCK + “!!’s”. It makes it really “alive” and exciting to study and understand well! 😉 Please go on in that way!
NO webpage, ever, so far I found, has lead to the IRL-tests you do, with no manufacturers or $’s “included”.
One topic, only YOU noticed so far, not found on the other (not so serious…) webpages, is to use heavier oil in air-cooled egines, I DO agree!
For this, my 1 question for you:
I’m the (first) owner of a 1990′ Suzuki GSX-R 750L in brilliant condition, and 80k, with no scoring or sludge, and only slightly metal-debris. Using magnetic oil drain plug.
Manual (1990) says 10W-40 which i’ve been using since new (also in the july city heat in Madrid @ 116F). Only used very litte amount of oil between OCI. Always 100% synthetic, and engine is cranked, to let oil pressure lamp go out, *before* starting up.
It also states, that “If you cannot get the 10W-40, 10W-50 or 15W-50 CAN be used”…..
But! The outstanding SACS oil-/air-cooling system is fitted with (of course) a radial oil cooler, and a mechanical plunger valve after one of the two oil pumps, to supply the oil cooler.
When engine is cold, oil is thick = pressure is high, and oil only passes through the by-pass channel via the plunger-valve, **directly to the oil filter**.
When engine- and oiltemps rises, oil is getting thinner, and the plunger closes, allowing the oil to go to the oil cooler.
I don’t know, if you are familar with these engines, too, so here, found at page 141, is it shown/described (as in my genuine service manual) for the 1986 model – nearby very similar SACS cooling system:
1. SACS PDF
The oil-question is:
IF I go with 10W-50 in the future, as you now has confirmed for air-cooled engines, will it affect the mechanical plunger-valve operating range, negative?
During warm up period, and “normal” driving, will the valve be restricting the flow to the oil-cooler due to the thicker oil?
In *my* theory, it will, but will it then, later, “allow” the higher 50-grade to be more hot, and therefore thin, to – anyway – let through the oil-cooler?
The machine is used in (air-)temperatures within 42-88F, mostly so in the 60’ies. No track days, but sometimes it sees the redline at 13k. 😉
**Surely**, I would respect if you haven’t any knowledge about these SACS-systems!
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In Honda CBR1000RR forums, they stated(!), that going from 10W-40 to 10W-50 will reduce rear wheel benchmark power with 6 BHP due to rised viscosity resistance?
Do you have any experience regarding this?
So far, in the overwhelming, all to wide “jungle” of engine oils, I’ve come to these two suggestions, Amsoil found in Germany:
2. 10W40 Amsoil 4T Motorcycle Oil
3. 10W50 Amsoil Metric Moyorcycle Oil
Would you think the old racer will like it for the next decades? Or do you have other suggestions?
(The new Quaker State Full Synthetic isn’t available here in Europe, sadly, Shell(!) has informed)
Gladly, I also found you determined, that new, better wear-additives has “taken over” for the reduced ZDDP, correct? (Article 74, interesting!) Thank you!
Final word: Do you know this report:
4. AMSOIL Advertising Video
Please feel free to ask questions, or correct me if i’ve missed something, thx.
I would – again – like to THANK YOU for this amazing content, serious! Wow 😉
K.R.
Carsten.
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Hi there,
Welcome to my Engineering Blog. I’m glad to read you like the information you found here so much, that you have invested many hours of your time reading it.
I’m also glad to read that you like my Honest, Real World, and FACTUAL, “Tell it Like it is Engineering” style of writing. That is what separates my Reliable and Trustworthy Blog from all the other sources out there that are only worthless garbage.
And thank you for the kind words of praise.
For those not familiar:
IRL means “In Real Life”
SACS means “Suzuki Advanced Cooling System”, which is an air and oil cooling system for motorcycles that are fundamentally air-cooled.
I clicked on all the links you provided. But, I don’t allow links in my Blog, so they are not shown here.
Link number 1 said “Not Found”. So I Googled SACS, but I did not find the technical detail I was looking for.
Link number 2 showed 10W40 Amsoil 4T Motorcycle Oil that is apparently an outdated listing. Because Amsoil does not list that oil on their current website.
Link number 3 showed 10W50 Amsoil Metric Moyorcycle Oil that is apparently an outdated listing. Because Amsoil does not list that oil on their current website either.
Suzuki says your motorcycle can use:
10W40
10W50
15W50
That means your SACS will function properly with all those viscosities. Keep in mind that the viscosity difference between cold oil and hot oil, is much greater than the viscosity difference between those viscosities at a given temperature.
So, the viscosity of those oils are much closer than you think. The largest effects on the plunger valve come from temperature changes, which cause it to open or close.
Thicker motor oil can cause some reduction in Horsepower because of increased viscous drag. But, do not believe any information you read on any Forum. Because Forum people are unqualified and incompetent. They are completely untrustworthy.
It simply does not matter if you lose a small amount of power from using a thicker motor oil, as long as it provides better protection than the previous oil you were using, and your motorcycle is not used as a Professional Race bike.
Wear protection capability is THE MOST IMPORTANT PROPERTY of any motor oil. Everything else a motor oil does, comes AFTER that.
Amsoil offers some of the “Best” motor oils on the market. But, they also offer some of the “Worst” motor oils on the market.
So, I only recommend using motor oils that I provide Engineering Test Data on. That way you will truly know what you are getting.
To provide the “Best” protection for your 33 year old Suzuki GSX-R 750 air/oil-cooled motorcycle, I recommend using 10W50 Amsoil Dirt Motorcycle Oil, which was THE NUMBER 1 motor oil in my Tech Article #69 on Air-Cooled engine oil.
*** NOTE: Thicker oil is still needed even in air-cooled Suzuki’s that have the SACS feature. Because SACS is totally dependent on “Air Flow” to transfer heat away for cooling, just like any air-cooled engine. And in very hot weather, with little to no air flow, such as in stop and go traffic in Madrid when the ambient (surrounding air) temperature is 116*F, the oil can become extremely hot and thin. But, thick oil will NOT become dangerously thin to the point that it cannot protect the engine, like thinner oils would. ***
Take care,
540 RAT
Thank you Rat very much for specified answer, rapidly!
I was googling “suzuki gsx-r 750 SACS 10W-50″ – then the PDF appeared at page one, below, if you want to see the system-drawing.
For eventually future questions, am I then allowed to include technical web-links (only) YOU do see, and you then delete/”rename”, as above, before final-posting? Or would you prefer none at all?!
Today I’ve been requesting the german supplier for Dirt oil 10W-50, as only the 10W-40 is visible in the shop.
Also thank you for clear description regarding aging engine oils (in use). I must admit, the last drain i made this fall, was not due to that many miles, but year(s……..), and the bad smell and thin viscosity confirmed it huh!
——————-
Regarding CTEK “”smart”” chargers article,,,,, have you seen them been “baking” water out of ordinary lead-acid batteries when attached for many months? (Car, motorcycle, garden)
This winter i only attach them every the 1’st. in each month, let LEDs be green, and then disconnect to see if level will remain steady.
Again, THANK YOU, happy I found you in this very exciting blog! 😉
Carsten.
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Hi again Carsten,
You are welcome.
I added a clarification to my response to your previous message. I included it again immediately below, in case you don’t go back to reread my previous response.
*** NOTE: Thicker oil is still needed even in air-cooled Suzuki’s that have the SACS feature. Because SACS is totally dependent on “Air Flow” to transfer heat away for cooling, just like any air-cooled engine. And in very hot weather, with little to no air flow, such as in stop and go traffic in Madrid when the ambient (surrounding air) temperature is 116*F, the oil can become extremely hot and thin. But, thick oil will NOT become dangerously thin to the point that it cannot protect the engine, like thinner oils would. ***
Feel free to share a link to my Blog, to any technical person you know. It is important to get true Engineering FACTS out there as much as possible.
I finally found that SACS drawing. Thanks for sharing where to find it.
Yes, any of my Blog readers are free to send me links. I will read them, but I will not post them here.
I never leave a battery charger on, after the battery has reached full charge, to avoid any possible problems.
Charging batteries once a month may or may not be often enough. A 12 Volt battery should not be allowed to go below 12.3 volts for best battery life.
So, you should use a digital volt meter on a Multi-Meter to check each battery’s voltage every week, until you establish each battery’s required recharge interval.
A fully charged 12 volt battery is 12.6 to 13.0 volts. Ideally, you should put a battery on a charger when it gets down to 12.4 to 12.5 volts.
Take care,
540 RAT
Mr. Rat I run QSFS in all my vehicles right now. In one of my cars it’s tuned to run the local E85, but actually it E65. My engine builder for that car keeps telling me to run a 5W40 weight because of the alcohol will thin the oil. What’s the best ranked 5W40 on your list?
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Hi there,
E-Fuels are terrible “LOW PERFORMANCE” fuels, that are THE WORST fuels available. Everything about them is negative, just like everything is negative about EV’s (electric vehicles), which are THE WORST vehicles ever created.
There are claimed advantages of E-Fuels.
1. They cost less, which is true.
2. They reduce emissions, which European Studies say is NOT true.
If you are in serious need of saving fuel costs, then that’s your call. Otherwise, no one should ever run E-Fuels.
The alcohol in E-Fuels provides about 30% LESS ENERGY than gasoline. So, in so-called Flex-Fuel vehicles, simply putting E-Fuel in the tank, will result in a LOSS of HP, and a LOSS of MPG. The ONLY benefit is saving money on fuel costs.
But, you will spend more money on oil changes, because the motor oil dilution, and corrosive properties of E-Fuels requires changing the oil AT LEAST TWICE AS OFTEN as you normally would. On top of all that, engine wear protection is REDUCED from the oil being diluted.
Since you say your vehicle is “tuned” to run E-Fuel, then you are probably aware that it is running terribly rich mixtures, in order to make more power than it normally would with such poor performing E-Fuels. But, that burns MORE fuel, and is illegal tampering on Emissions controlled street vehicles. And to make matters even worse, using extra rich E-Fuel mixtures, seriously INCREASES the motor oil dilution, which DECREASES engine wear protection, and INCREASES the corrosion issue.
So, unless your vehicle is a dedicated race vehicle, you should do yourself a favor, and go back to running gasoline.
You should read my Tech Article #72 on the downsides of E-Fuels.
CONCLUSION
If you are determined to run E-Fuels in a street vehicle, no matter how bad that decision is, I recommend the following oil change intervals using proper 5W30, rather than the poor choice of 5W40:
For normal daily driven Flex-Fuel vehicles running oil diluting, wear increasing, and highly corrosive E-Fuels – change the oil AT LEAST every 2,500 miles, rather than the normal 5,000 miles if you were using straight gasoline.
For vehicles “tuned” to run extremely rich, oil diluting, wear increasing, and highly corrosive E-Fuels – change the oil AT LEAST every 1,250 miles.
As you can see, EVERYTHING is negative about running terrible E-Fuels. Do NOT believe anyone who tells you how great E-Fuels are in street vehicles. Because they have no idea what they are talking about.
Take care,
540 RAT
Happy New Year 540 RAT,
I was wondering if you had any recommendations on protecting an ICE car which we would have to store in an unheated garage during the Winter for a month or more. I’ve read that the oil and filter should be replaced to remove oil contaminants and then running the engine to get the fresh oil throughout the engine before putting in storage. Then upon return, some also recommend that the oil and filter should be replaced again before taking it out of storage. This second change seem like overkill though.
I’m also planning on putting the 12 volt battery on my NOCO Genius G750, 0.75 amp trickle charger, fill the gas tank, inflate the tires to 45 psi to prevent flat spotting and disengage the parking brake.
Your recommendations would be much appreciated!
Thanks!
Doug
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Hi Doug,
Most of your thoughts/plans are a good idea. 👍
And yes, you are correct, you do NOT need to change the oil and oil filter again when you take it out of storage, as long as you drive the vehicle for at least 30 to 45 minutes with the new oil and oil filter, before parking it for the winter. That will boil off any normal condensation, which you do NOT want mixed in with your oil over the winter.
However, the one thing I would suggest reconsidering, is leaving a charger on it indefinitely and unattended. I never do that myself, and I do not recommend doing that.
Because small generally inexpensive electronics made overseas are not always reliable or safe. So, if you leave them on indefinitely and unattended, you risk a fire hazard that could burn the vehicle and the building it is in, to the ground. And if that is connected to your house, anyone in it could be in grave danger.
I only put battery chargers on if I am in the area to keep an eye on them. And I recommend others do the same, just to be safe. For that reason, I never use a trickle charger. I use a 6 or 7 amp charger for maybe 1.5 hours, once every week or two as needed.
A 12 Volt battery should not be allowed to go below 12.3 volts for best battery life. So, you should use a Digital volt meter on a Digital Multi-Meter to check the battery’s voltage every week, until you establish the battery’s required recharge interval.
A fully charged 12 volt battery is 12.6 to 13.0 volts. Ideally, you should put a battery on a charger when it gets down to 12.4 to 12.5 volts.
Take care,
540 RAT
Hi 540 Rat: I almost hate to ask this but there I go thinking again… If one like me does not start their new vehicle very often, I am talking about my 2019 Ram Regular cab , short wide box in very pretty patriotic blue, it does not even have 6000 miles yet. Well if I put 5% prolong with the QSFS 5W30, , do you think that is a bad idea? Thank you for all you do.
Douglas
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Hi again Douglas,
I’m surprised you haven’t read enough of my Blog by now, to already know the answer to that question.
But, it is a good thing you asked about that, before doing it. Using Prolong Engine Treatment is a “HORRIBLE” idea. Its chlorine can cause engine bearing corrosion. So, it should NEVER EVER be used!!! That product should not even be on the market.
Aftermarket motor oil additives should NEVER EVER be used. Because in addition to any direct problems they create, they upset the carefully balanced factory additive package, making the oil worse OVERALL than it was to begin with. If you are using a motor oil that needs help, you have selected the WRONG motor oil.
The 5W30 QSFS (Quaker State Full Synthetic), API SP, is by far THE BEST motor oil ever available. So, it does NOT need any help. Just use it as it comes right out of the bottle.
Take care,
540 RAT
Morning
I need to check my transmission fluid.
If it’s low and needs some added what do you suggest to use? I was told ATF 4.
Dodge Ram 2002 3500 5 speed manual transmission thanks
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Hi there,
Your manual transmission is designated an NV4500. Its factory-fill was 75W85 GL4 gear oil (“NOT” GL4/GL5!!!). It must be GL4 gear oil “ONLY”.
GL5 can damage manual transmissions. GL4/GL5 is a designation for differentials NOT for manual transmissions.
That factory-fill 75W85 GL4 gear oil, provided good wear protection for all types of usage, including SEVERE usage.
That is what I would recommend using. But, if you don’t know what is in there now, then drain it all out, and refill with new 75W85 GL4 gear oil.
You can Google 75W85 GL4 gear oil, to find what’s available. But, make sure what you choose is “GL4 ONLY”.
ATF+4 is thinner and provides LESS wear protection. It is only an acceptable alternative for trucks that are NOT worked hard.
Take care,
540 RAT
Hi RAT,
I just saw your update to Tech Article #68 on Electric Vehicles. I cannot comprehend how people have such low intelligence that they would buy EVs. Because they are so badly designed, have such poor reliability, have such a short range in reality, and are so painful to live with. I just do not understand.
If gas vehicles were that bad, no one would buy them.
Keep up the great work you do.
Zenyatta
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Hi there,
Yes, generally anyone who buys an EV (electric vehicle) is either a complete idiot, or else simply ignorant of how “UNBELIEVABLY BAD” EV’s are in the real world.
Some of the biggest problems with EV’s are:
1. They are typically priced too high.
2. When the battery charge is maintained between 20% and 80% for best battery life, the real world “range” is only about “HALF” of what the US EPA Estimated Range is. The EPA Estimated Range is “intentionally” false. Because of blatant corruption, they try to make EV’s seem way better than they really are. Buyer Beware!!!
3. Cold weather battery performance and recharging capability, is “unacceptably poor”.
4. They can’t really use their A/C in “hot” weather, because it runs the battery down too quickly.
5. They can’t really use their heater in “cold” weather, because it runs the battery down too quickly.
6. Pick-up EV’s can’t really haul or tow, because doing that runs the battery down to quickly.
7. The never-ending aggravation of the time, and cost of recharging the battery, which is often more costly and ALWAYS WAY, WAY MORE TIME CONSUMING, than filling up a gas engine vehicle.
8. When the battery pack eventually fails and has to be replaced, which “naturally” is often much sooner than claimed, can cost tens of “thousands” of dollars.
9. Substantial unregulated global pollution is created in 3rd World Countries when mining materials to build EV’s. But, that is not taken into account when EV’s are claimed to be zero emissions vehicles.
The whole notion of EV’s saving the planet, is based on lies and corruption.
More specifically, people who buy EV’s, are either insane climate fanatics who don’t know, or don’t care about the truth, or they are people too dumb to research what they are getting themselves into before buying one.
Whichever is the case, they deserve what they get. And if they have any brain at all, they will suffer SEVERE buyers remorse, and end up going back to gas vehicles.
Take care,
540 RAT
Thanks
I new you would know
Hi RAT,
Agree to everything you ‘ve written about EVs. Even in EU, where regular gas is at an avg of 1.9€/lt (1.86$/qt at this time). In addition, Netherland faces a big problem concerning villages that are close to main motorways’ EV charger stations: frequent blackouts twice or more a day!!! That’s a proof that electric power stations are NOT capable of providing the power needed to handle the demands of the existing EV fleet in the county, that counts a percentage of 1.1% of total car fleet.
I can’t even imagine what will happen from 2035 and on, when only EVs will be on sale in the continent. Assuming that then, they will be capable of providing the electric energy needed, curious to see the price of it. Affordability will be questionable though.
I checked the transmission fluid on the my 2002 dodge 3500 5 speed.
The fluid level was good. Looks like the GL4 is pretty hard to find. Redline came up the most.
Thanks again
Hi RAT,
Been a follower since 2015 and really appreciate your blog. Thank you for what you do. This is my bible for oil reference.
I have a new 2023 6.6L duramax diesel and using your blog to find the best oil to use. I have found your list of best heavyduty diesel oils and was sad to see how poorly diesel oils performed.
I noticed 5w40 quaker euro is for diesel or gas with outstanding protection. My question is if it is safe to use without being api ck-4 and only rated api sp for gas? Or would 5w30 amsoil sig series diesel with api ck-4 but not manufacture recommended weight be a better choice?
thanks again for everything.
Alex
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Hi Alex,
You are welcome. I’m glad to read that you have been one of my many Blog followers for years, and that you really embrace the Engineering Test Data FACTS that can only be found here in my Blog. And thanks for the kind words, I appreciate that.
Keep in mind that the wear protection capability numbers are “relative”. Meaning that gas engine requirements and Heavy Duty Diesel engine requirements are apples and oranges, so they cannot be compared straight across.
Gas engine components are “smaller” than comparable Heavy Duty Diesel engine components. So, gas engine components see “higher” psi loading, therefore they need “higher” psi motor oil for adequate protection.
On the other hand, Heavy Duty Diesel engine components are “LARGER” than comparable gas engine components. So, Heavy Duty Diesel engine components see “lower” psi loading, therefore they can operate just fine with “lower” psi motor oil, and still have adequate protection.
Bottom Line: Heavy Duty Diesel engine motor oils do not need to provide the high psi numbers we see in the better gas engine oils. So, choosing a Heavy Duty Diesel oil from my Tech Article #67’s Heavy Duty Diesel Oil Wear Protection Ranking List, is perfectly fine. That is why I posted it, so that Heavy Duty Diesel engine operators would have a Ranking List specifically for their application.
You should not use Euro oils, without the API CK-4 certification. Because they are only intended for gas and “lightweight” Diesel engines, NOT for Heavy Duty Diesel engines.
For Heavy Duty Diesel engines, I recommend using the “HOT” viscosity rating called for by the Manufacturer, and the CK number called for by the Manufacturer.
For example 0W40, 5W40 and 15W40 Heavy Duty Diesel oils have “COLD” viscosity ratings of 0wt, 5wt, and 15wt, respectively. When cold 0wt flows the best, 5wt flows second best, and 15wt flows the worst.
But, they “ALL” have the same “HOT” viscosity rating of 40wt. So, they all flow about the same when hot.
So, my specific recommendation for your new 2023 6.6L duramax diesel, is to use 0W40 Amsoil Max-Duty Signature Series Diesel Oil, API CK-4 motor oil. With that oil, your engine will be very well protected, and you won’t have to worry about motor oil for it again.
Take care,
540 RAT
Hello Rat540,
I stumbled on your site doing some research for the best motor oil for my new 2022 WRX.
Most everyone I saw on the forums had an opinion that their chosen oil was the best but offered no data to back it up other than it makes them feel better when they use it.
After reading much of your blog and some info posted on other sites There was no other answer than Quaker State 5W-30 full synthetic.
Just wanted to say thanks for doing the research. I’m confident I made the right choice instead of following what all the cool kids were doing.
Question: My new ride requires premium gas. Is there a fuel additive that you would recommend for high compression turbo engines?
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Hi there,
When I saw your “name/handle” that was essentially “429 Cobra Jet”, I was expecting your message would be related to that Classic American Big Block V-8.
But either way, welcome to my Blog.
Yes, Automotive Forums are full of only worthless chatter from unqualified people who do NOT know what they are talking about, and can never back-up anything they say. All they throw out is opinion, theory, and/or speculation, which are just other words for guessing. I recommend to my Blog readers that they stay off of Forums, because their bad information is worse than no information at all.
I would also say that the so-called cool kids are NOT cool at all. Because they are clueless and have no idea what they are doing. So, you will become the REAL cool kid.
You are welcome, you came to the right place. I have countless readers who left Forums, and came to my Blog for Engineering FACTS that cannot be found anywhere else.
Everything I post here, is backed-up by hard Engineering Test Data. No one else anywhere does that. So, my Blog is the only accurate and reliable Technical Information Source you will find.
Yes, 5W30 Quaker State Full Synthetic (QSFS), API SP, is my number 1 Ranked motor oil, that set an all-time BEST record for motor oil “wear protection capability” performance. I was the one who determined how well it performed. And any other sites posting info about how great 5W30 QSFS is, got their info from right here in my Blog.
You are correct, 5W30 QSFS, API SP, is the correct answer for your new WRX.
If your WRX is stock, then all you need to do is run the highest octane premium pump gas available where you live. In the US, that is typically between 91 and 93 pump octane.
Your engine should be equipped with a factory knock sensor that will prevent pinging, so no fuel additive is needed, nor recommended.
But, if you happen to have 100 octane unleaded Race Gas conveniently available to you, you could run that gas if you can tolerate $10.00 per gallon. That gas would allow your engine to produce maximum power without the knock sensor ever being activated, which would instantly roll back the power as needed to prevent pinging.
Simply put, the higher the fuel octane, the better the power…up to the engine’s design limit of course.
Take care,
540 RAT
Morning 540 Rat –
So glad I found your blog! Thanks for all the time, money and effort!
Don’t have any questions yet (since I’m rabbit holing on a lot of reading 😉 ) just wanted to say hi and give thanks.
I would like to share I have a Turbo’d EJ25 Subaru engine ( found in WRX/STi’s and other Subaru models) with EJ20 heads, called a “Hybrid” build, Reasoning do to my WRX not having AVCS (Subaru’s variable cam timing) so had to have the compression chambers machined to match the CC volume found on the 2.5 heads (Which are AVCS) so the compression range which match allowing me to run non AVCS cams, etc..
Anyways It’s all stock bottom end minus Cosworth pistons and the heads have Kelford cams and Supertech valve (nothing too crazy tho) and I have been running Valvoline VR1 40 and change it religiously every 2000 miles.
Since I’m always in the hunt of lessening my ignorance but realize it will never truly be 0. I found your blog (again thanks for the awesomeness) and found your Quaker State 5w 30 synthetic oil being top recommendation. I’m excited to try it but for some reason still worried to use synthetic with a built turbo car pushing 20psi and is flat tappet cams…..I know I’m sure you think I’m mental but I guess I stand corrected and do have a question after all.
Please help me be sound of mind in switching to QSFS 5w 30 I’m very sceptical of everything by nature even if I can see that it’s red I still question it. “Is it truly red?”
We’ll thanks for reading and hope your new year is going well.
-Paul
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Hi Paul,
Welcome to my Blog.
First, a word of caution about your engine. I do not personally build High Horsepower WRX/STi engines. However, from what I have been told from several different unrelated Subaru guys, at different times over the years, is that your particular engine is perfectly fine and durable when stock or close to it.
But, that its oiling system is borderline, and that its crank and rod bearings are undersize, compared to many other engines. So, the engine is not designed robust enough to handle a lot of extra power. That means, as its power level is increased, its durability and “Margin of Safety”, as we call it in Engineering, go down.
That makes it touchy about what you do with that engine as the Horsepower level is increased. And they have said that running overly thick oil is somewhat of a band aid to help prevent bottom end failures at higher Horsepower levels.
With that much feedback from multiple Subaru Hotrod guys saying the same thing, there must be some truth to all that. I don’t mean to alarm you, but I would be doing a disservice if I did not make you aware of the information that has been shared with me.
So, keep that in mind regarding what you do with your motor oil viscosity. The FIRST choice in motor oil is to select the correct viscosity for your application. And the SECOND choice is to select a Highly Ranked, High psi oil from my Wear Protection Ranking List.
There is NO problem with running a synthetic motor oil in a High Horsepower engine. In fact, synthetic motor oils are better than conventional motor oils in almost every way.
Valvoline does not list a 40wt VR1 motor oil on their Website. So, I don’t know what oil you are actually using now.
5W30 Quaker State Full Synthetic, API SP, provides THE BEST WEAR PROTECTION CAPABILITY on the market. It set an all-time HIGHEST psi value ever recoded. So, if an engine can run 5W30, that oil is BY FAR, THE BEST CHOICE.
Countless people run it in all their vehicles, from stock, to High Performance street, to dedicated Race Cars.
I run it myself in all of my well designed American engines, ranging from stock moderate Horsepower, to stock High Horsepower, to large displacement High Horsepower, to Supercharged High Horsepower. And it is THE PERFECT CHOICE for all those applications.
With a properly designed engine, all you have to do to run 5W30, is to make sure that its “HOT” oil pressure is good.
But, since your particular engine becomes more and more touchy as its Horsepower level goes up, I am hesitant to encourage you to switch to 5W30.
I don’t have any hard data on modified Subaru engines. But, if your Horsepower level has increased significantly, it is probably a better judgement call, to stay with an overly thick oil.
In your particular unique situation, it’s an example of where it is likely “better to be safe than sorry”. But of course, that is your call.
Take care,
540 RAT
Hi 540 Rat-
Thanks for the reply!
The motor makes 350H 350T to the wheels on a Mustang dyno. The motor is not drag raced or launched hard. Ever. Or see’s prolonged high RPMs. Most is normal road course use if “pushed hard”.
Now with that, using the VR1 40 “conventional” (here in Texas) the oil temps run between 180 and 210˚F. and pressure is normally 60psi at idle and 100psi at full pressure.
I was about to buy some VR1 30 “conventional” but had remembered your blog and well…here I am.
All the crank and rod bearings / clearances are stock and those clearances, per Subaru, normally call for 5w-30. From what I’ve gathered over the years.
Well, heck…. I’m tempted to run the QSFS and see if the temp and pressure is good. Would that be a good “check” to make sure it’s a good fit? If not do you have any suggestions? i.e. VR1 30, VR1 40 like i’ve been doing?
Thanks for the read and help. Much appreciated!!
-Paul
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Hi again Paul,
OK, after digging even deeper, I did finally find Valvoline straight 30wt and straight 40wt conventional VR1 motor oils that were not shown on the original listing I looked at on their Website.
But, running a straight 40wt motor oil is one of the WORST things you could do to your engine. Because straight 40wt is WAY TOO THICK for acceptable flow during cold start-up and during initial warm-up, where most wear takes place, even in Texas. By using a straight 40wt, you have been causing unnecessary wear on your engine.
If you must use an oil that thick, then it is essential that you run a “multi-viscosity” motor oil with a “hot” viscosity rating of 40wt. One example is 0W40 Amsoil Signature Series oil, API SP, which can flow well when cold because of its “0” cold viscosity rating, while still being rated as a 40wt viscosity when hot. That is why multi-viscosity motor oils have been the best choice for decades.
As I said before, I don’t have any hard data on modified Subaru engines. So, it is not clear how much your significantly increased power level has reduced your engine’s bottom end “Margin of Safety”.
Your numbers would suggest that you are already pushing your luck. But, since you don’t beat on too hard, you may be more or less OK, at least while you are using the overly thick 40wt motor oil.
Because of your particular engine’s uniquely marginal bottom end design, just checking the oil pressure with 5W30, may not be good enough to ensure reliability. So, staying with an overly thick motor oil with a 40wt “HOT” viscosity rating is probably the safest way for you to go.
In your particular case, the oil viscosity you run, is NOT about what Subaru calls for in their stock engine. Your needs changed when you significantly increased the the power level in that engine, which has a marginal bottom end design.
Desirable fully warmed-up “HOT” oil temperatures are between 215*F and 250*F. So, if your fully warmed-up “HOT” oil temperatures are between 180*F and 210*F, that is TOO COLD, which promotes sludge formation, causes motor oil dilution because normal condensation is not burned off, and leaves the thicker than it should be, which causes additional viscous drag. Remember, all motor oils thin out as they heat up.
The oil pressure numbers you showed, are WAY HIGHER THAN NORMAL for fully warmed-up, “HOT” oil pressure. Hopefully, you provided cold oil pressure numbers.
Take care,
540 RAT
Hey 540 Rat –
Luckily I knew about cold start with that weight and actually have a block warmer and heating pad on the oil pan running over night. Also I don’t have to run that weight.
Ultimately thats what I’m hunting for. Is that I don’t think I need that heavy of an oil and from reading your blog, I’m looking for verification / peace of mind on the idea of running a lower weight multigrade oil.
540 Rat-
So re-reading our convo a few times. 🙂 I ended up with a question.
So QSFS 5w-30 is the big dog. In relation to the highest PSI value and you have gently pointed to (because as you mentioned, your little knowledge of the Subaru motors) be “better to be safe than sorry” with your hesitant to encourage I to switch to 5W30.
In lays my confusion. Sorry for being a PITA. but I’m more uncertain now than before, on what to do. AAHHHH. lol 🙂
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See my long response before this one. It should answer all your questions.
You are not a PITA. All questions are welcome.
My Blog is all about helping people. Because there is no other source for car guys to go to that provides FACTS.
540 RAT
540 Rat-
I notice you last reply changes and increases as I post a new reply and the page reloads…hehehe.
So the cold start psi is 90-100psi after the car warms up its any where from 45-60psi at idle and while driving the psi is 100psi, which for almost 20 years has been the normal ranges I’ve seen with EJ20/25 motors.
-Paul
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It is strange that you can see a response I am working on, “while” I am working on it, “before” I click “submit”.
But, that has happened before. And sometimes a Blog reader and I, tip all over each other because of that. That is apparently only possible for the person who originally sent the message.
100 psi of “HOT” oil pressure while just driving along, is WAY HIGHER than is normal. And is WAY HIGHER than is needed. Apparently, Subaru did not design that properly either. Perhaps they upped the oil pressure as a way to help their poorly designed bottom end, because that was cheaper than redesigning the bottom end components. Companies do take less costly short cuts like that.
The oil pressure rule of thumb for a properly designed engine, even for dedicated Race Cars, is that the engine should make at least 10 psi of “HOT” oil pressure for every 1,000 rpm. For example: An engine should make at least 30 psi of “HOT” oil pressure at 3,000 rpm, etc, etc.
So, for WRX to make 100 psi “HOT” oil pressure at a moderate rpm just driving down the road, is completely off the charts, and totally unnecessary.
Generating totally unnecessary oil pressure like that, generates additional heat in the oil, and increases drag on the engine for no good reason .
If you have any more questions, feel free to ask.
540 RAT
540 Rat-
Well, at this rate my “gut” (which is like the word assume but one sided) is telling me to go with VR1 10w-30.
Reason being (and I guess a missing point to all this) is my break-in oil was lucas 30w break-in oil and was also tuned on straight 30w (VR1) if I recall correctly. And has been running great with little to no noticeable oil consumption (granted I change the oil every 2000 miles on the nose) and even had the VR1 40w tested by Blackstone Labs and they gave it a great review. (They did say the viscosity was slightly low for a 40w, SUS was 69.3 and cSt was 12.77 (( virgin sample was 14.12)), but that’s it)
Well curious what you make of that. 🙂
Thanks again for the convo and info!!!
-Paul
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Just so you know, if you can run 10W30, (which is not a great choice, because its 10wt cold viscosity is thicker than ideal, thus its cold flow is not ideal) you can run 5W30 which is a much better choice, since it has better cold flow, from its 5wt cold viscosity rating.
However, 10W30 and 5W30 “BOTH” are “HOT” rated as 30wt oils. So, viscosity-wise, they equivalent when at normal operating temperature.
Specifically:
10W30 Valvoline VR1 conventional = 103,505 psi
5W30 Quaker State Full Synthetic = 152,674 psi
That means 5W30 QSFS provides a WHOPPING 58% MORE Wear Protection. So, it is the ONLY sensible choice for a 30wt multi-viscosity motor oil.
However, running a 30wt multi-viscosity motor oil in a non-stock, “High Horsepower” STi has been known to result in a blown engine because of their marginal bottom end design. They ran fine right up until they didn’t. So…
Engines do NOT need Break-In oil, no matter how High Performance they may be. That whole notion is only a MYTH perpetuated by unqualified, incompetent people who do not know what they are talking about.
The reason engines do NOT need Break-In oil is because new engine components are immediately forced to seat-in with their mating components, in order to support the load being applied to them. It is that simple. This is NOT Rocket Science.
Automakers have NOT used Break-In oils for over 100 years. Competent Mechanical Engineers do NOT use Break-In oil. Major Oil Brands do NOT offer Break-In oil. You can use a High Ranking, High psi oil from my Wear Protection Ranking List, from day one.
Only smaller US Hotrod and Racing Oil Companies offer Break-In oil. But, they do not employ competent Degreed Engineers. So, they do NOT know what they are doing.
Specifically, your Lucas 30wt Break-In oil = ONLY 49,455 psi which is laughably pathetic. You are very lucky that your engine wasn’t damaged by that oil. The fact that your engine builder used any Break-In oil in the first place, and that terrible Break-In oil in particular, proves he is totally incompetent and untrustworthy.
I stopped using Blackstone many years ago because of their bad work, which I caught them at. At first they claimed they were not wrong. But, when I proved they did it wrong, they finally admitted it, and did my test over again. After that, I could never trust them again.
Then I switched to “ALS Tribology” in Phoenix, Arizona.
So, I have shared info and offered suggestions. Now, it is up to you to decide how you want to proceed.
540 RAT
540 Rat-
Yeah, that’s all the current understanding of best practice from before finding your blog. 😉
540 Rat-
Well….went and put QSFS 5w30 in. 🙂
Thank you for the very useful information throughout the whole blog. I was wondering would it be possible to test and include LiquiMoly’s engine oils in your ranking? It is a very popular brand in South East Asia, but it seems like it is not so popular from where you are (USA I assume)
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Hi there,
You are welcome. I’m glad to read that you consider the Engineering Information here in my Blog to be very useful.
I have already tested and included LiquiMoly engine oil in my ranking. I tested 5W40 Liqui Moly Leichtlauf High Tech Oil, synthetic = 69,580 psi, which ranked it 240th out of 286 motor oils tested so far.
As you can see, it is unfortunately a very poor performing motor oil that is not worth using, when there are so many other motor oils that perform FAR BETTER.
Its performance is so bad, that I don’t bother wasting my time, effort or money, to test any more oils offered by that brand. It is not popular here in the USA because it is a bottom tier motor oil that no one is interested in.
It is somewhat surprising that it would be popular in South East Asia. But, it is likely that LiquiMoly posts false advertising and fraudulent claims about their brand there. And they could probably get away with that, because in lightly loaded, low performance engines, even oil that bad is probably good enough to not cause immediate wide ranging engine problems.
Sadly, most people automatically assume if their oil does not immediately cause their engine to seize, that it must be the greatest oil known to man. But, of course Engineering does not work off of assumption.
Hopefully, you have much better motor oils available in South East Asia.
Take care,
540 RAT
Morning 540.
I not keen on EV vehicles, but the new Corvette, E Ray for 2024 sounds interesting as it’s all wheel drive and the rear wheels are driven by a 6.2 liter engine and the front wheels are electric.
It’s the fastest Corvette to date, at 2.5 seconds 0 to 100 km’s.
I believe up here in the great white north it’s
$134,000 Canadian.
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Hi again,
The Corvette will soon become an all-electric vehicle with no internal combustion engine (ICE) at all.
GM which is run by their utterly incompetent CEO Mary Barra, deserves to go out of business for trying to FORCE EV’s down the throats of Americans who do NOT want EV’s, which are the WORST vehicles ever created.
Take care,
540 RAT
Hi 540 RAT,
I saw your Blog updates with the new test data on those VP Racing oils. WOW so there are even more high zinc Racing oils that are not good enough to even consider using.
I also went to their website to see what they were claiming about their oils. They sure do brag about how wonderful their oils are. But those are only lies. And you caught them in the act.
Thank you so much for your Engineering Tests. Us regular people can only find out the truth by going to your Blog.
Zenyatta
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Hi there,
Yes, it is insane that all these High Zinc Racing Oil Companies are all so incredibly incompetent. They do not employ qualified Degreed Engineers. They have no idea what they are doing. And they just dump a bunch of zinc in their oil, and proclaim it to be the best oil known to man.
They are part of the U.S. Hotrod and Racing world that is completely brainwashed and delusional about needing obsolete and outdated high zinc oil. But, Engineering Tests have absolutely PROVEN over and over again that the idea of needing high zinc oil is only a MYTH.
Experience and Engineering Tests have clearly shown that these high zinc oils actually CAUSE engine wear, damage, and failure.
But, even though they continue to have never-ending wiped flat tappet cam lobes when using their shockingly BAD high zinc oils, they cannot grasp the thought that those pathetic oils are the root cause of those failures. So, they deserve what they get.
Those High Zinc Racing Oil Companies constantly put out false performance advertising and fraudulent performance claims, that their extremely poor performing oils do NOT provide.
The world would be far better off if those high zinc oils were removed from the market. But, until they get sued out of existence, they will still put that garbage out there.
The better API SP motor oils with their modern 21st Century formulations, are FAR, FAR, BETTER than any of those worthless high zinc oils.
Intelligent people have stopped using those pitiful High Zinc oils, and have switched mostly to 5W30 Quaker State Full Synthetic, API SP motor oil, which truly provides THE BEST WEAR PROTECTION CAPABILITY EVER RECORDED.
Take care,
540 RAT