On a 2008 Mercedes-Benz E550, the owner’s manual calls for 85W-90 hypoid gear oil to be used in the rear differential on a car. However, there are very few suppliers of 85W-90 hypoid gear oil, one of them LiquiMoly and another one is buying OEM fluids from the dealership.
I don’t want to run LiquiMoly gear oil for reasons that you’ve shared with us. And, it is likely that LiquiMoly supplies Mercedes-Benz with the same gear oil used in OEM packaging (though I haven’t checked).
Do you think it would be okay to use Valvoline 80W-90 High Performance Hypoid gear oil, ranked #5 on your gear oil/transmission oil testing list, inside that rear differential?
Thank you for your help in advance,
Sam
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Hi Sam,
Valvoline 80W-90 High Performance, “conventional” GL-5 hypoid extreme pressure gear oil would be a good choice for conventional differentials. But, it is “NOT” for limited slip differentials.
Valvoline 75W-90 Full “Synthetic”, GL-5 hypoid extreme pressure gear oil is a good choice for conventional “OR” limited slip differentials.
So, choose between either one of these as needed for your vehicle, and you will good to go.
Hello Mr. Rat,
Public service announcement with regards to hybrid and plug in hybrid. The extra money you pay up front may be offset by gas savings ( only if the majority of driving is “city” ) but then all those break even savings are lost when you have to fix/replace the battery and other associated repairs due to its complexity.
Dean
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Hi Dean,
Was wondering (after f3’ing my brains out) if you have plans to ever test Amsoil Signature Series 0W-40 Synthetic Motor Oil?
Thanks for reading and have a good day
~Paul
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Hi again Paul,
No, because a multi-viscosity 40wt motor oil is THICKER than ideal for most water-cooled, gasoline engine applications.
And a multi-viscosity 20wt motor oil is THINNER than ideal for most most water-cooled, gasoline engine applications.
But, a multi-viscosity 30wt motor oil is THE IDEAL viscosity for most most water-cooled, gasoline engine applications.
Since it is just not possible to test every last motor oil on the market, I focus mostly on multi-viscosity 30wt motor oils, that have the highest value, for the most people.
However, the Amsoil Signature Series line of oil, is very good. So, for your particular application, you could run 0W40 Amsoil Signature Series with no concern at all, even if I have not tested it.
If I owned your particular High Horsepower WRX STi, with its marginal bottom end design, I would use 0W40 Amsoil Signature Series, so that I could sleep better at night.
Your car is an exception where a multi-viscosity 30wt motor oil is NOT the best choice. You will kick yourself if you blow your engine up from running the wrong viscosity motor oil, when you have been made aware of the viscosity that is the BEST choice for you to be running.
People doing the right thing, don’t blow-up their engine. That’s why I recommended you use 0W40 Amsoil Signature Series. Because it is the BEST choice for your particular application, and will provide a higher “Margin of Safety”, as we call it in Engineering.
As I have said before, for most cases, here is how a motor oil should be chosen, in this exact order:
1. Select the correct viscosity.
2. Select a highly ranked, high psi oil from my Wear Protection Ranking List.
However, for any questions about special cases, get in touch with me here.
I make Engineering recommendations based on each specific application I am asked about. But of course, each reader ultimately has to decide for themselves, what they want to do with that recommendation.
First off, thanks for this work you’ve committed yourself to for years now. I’ve been following it for about 4 years on and off.
So let me get to it: I own a VW.
The 5w30 QSFS isn’t euro rated for VW. I did find a QSFS 5w40 euro that rates pretty well on your testing but I wanted to ask how important is the Euro tag on the bottle?
Can I run the QSFS 5w30?
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Hi David,
Thanks for being one of my many Blog followers.
If your VW has a Diesel engine, then you should use a “Euro” motor oil.
If your VW has a gasoline engine, then 5W30 QSFS (Quaker State Full Synthetic), API SP, would be the BEST choice.
So as cheesy as it might sound and based on what I can hear, see, as well as my butt dyno / ass sensor inputs are telling me, the Amsoil 0W40 signature series seems to be a great match for my build/motor. It actually smoothed out the idle a small amount, enough to notice! Power feels more linear and pushes sooner in the lower RPM range.
I also went and put in Amsoil 75W90 severe gear oil and even that made a difference in the sense that the drive train noise quieted down and smoothed out as well, including a smoother shift through the gears!!
Crazy! Well thought I’d share….back to lurk mode
Thanks for reading.
-Paul
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Hi again Paul,
Hopefully, you will be lurking again soon to read my response here.
Two things, one GOOD, and one BAD:
1. GOOD – I’m glad to see that you are very happy with the 0W40 Amsoil Signature Series oil that I recommended specifically for your build/motor.
2. BAD – You obviously have not read my Tech Article #55 on Gear Oil Tests.
If you had, you would know that 75W90 Amsoil Severe Gear Oil was THE WORST performing gear oil I tested. It is ranked 11th out of the 11 Gear Oils I tested. It is one of Amsoil’s WORST performing products.
My strong recommendation is for this gear oil to NEVER be used. One of my other Blog readers reported that he and his buddies were getting a lot of metal particles on their differential magnetic drain plugs when using this gear oil. When they changed to a better gear oil from my Gear Oil Test, the metal particles disappeared.
NOTE: The HIGHER the psi value, the BETTER the Wear Protection. Here are the comparison numbers:
75W90 Amsoil Severe Gear Oil = ONLY 78,481 psi
75W-90 Valvoline Full Synthetic Gear Oil = 121,502 psi
So as you can see, the 75W-90 Valvoline Full Synthetic Gear Oil provides a WHOPPING 55% MORE WEAR PROTECTION than that pathetic 75W90 Amsoil Severe Gear Oil.
I did see that section, but I had impulse ordered that and was about to return it for the 75W110 version but decided to run this for a short period as like a flush to get the Motul out.
I saw some good News today. Now GM says they are not abandoning their gas V-8 engines after all, to switch to all electric vehicles only. That really surprised me because GM’s CEO has prided herself in being a radical climate fanatic. I guess she finally got a clue that GM would collapse if they only offer electric vehicles. Your thoughts?
Zenyatta
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Hi again,
Yes, I saw that in the News also. And that did come as a total surprise. Because GM’s utterly worthless and completely incompetent CEO Mary Barra, has for a long time been saying “matter of factly” that GM was converting to an All-EV Company by 2030 or 2035, depending on which News article you read. And absolutely no exceptions were ever mentioned.
Now today, she back-pedaled and GM announced that they are NOT going to abandon their gas engines. They said they will still offer gas V-8’s in their full-size pick-ups, SUV’s, and larger trucks. And they said they are investing nearly a $billion dollars in 4 new factories to produce those engines.
Making such an abrupt reversal in their future plans, would make you think that much smarter people than her at GM, could see they were heading toward the cliff of extinction, perhaps from Market Research.
Because it is quite clear that Americans simply do NOT want EV’s which are THE WORST vehicles ever created. They are miserable to live with, and many EV buyers are suffering massive buyer’s remorse.
Especially as more and more buyers discover that in freezing weather, EV’s are simply unworkable because of 50% reductions in driving range and EXTREME DIFFICULTIES in recharging. One owner of a new very expensive Hummer EV, found out that the largest home charger you can buy, took 5 DAYS, yes 5 DAYS to fully recharge his Hummer. He had major buyer’s remorse.
So, you have to wonder if GM’s Board of Directors told CEO Mary Barra to make some serious changes if she wanted to keep her job.
Whatever the case, that is a major move in the right direction for GM. And with Ford already planning separate Gas and Electric Divisions, now it will be interesting to see if Chrysler revises their All-Electric plans, now that they are the only major American Automaker claiming to be switching to all EV’s. TBD…
Good Morning.
Very Interesting Blog. I appreciate the view. Interesting on the PSI and not so much on the traditional ZDDP and or truck oil.
I have seen this blog many times. I have read through it.
I have had failures in the past, and I have had good results. I dont want to name oils here.
so…to my questions…or I am soliciting a recommendation from you…
I am running a 427 cubic inch Ford windsor engine(stroked 351) with a dart block and eagle steel crank-rods. I run a solid roller cam with pressure fed solid roller lifters. Makes an Honest 680hp on the dyno. 12 to 1 compression. I run high octane gas–110
To date, I have run rotella 15/40w dino and mobil 1 15/50 synthetic. No reliability issues to date, low use, under 20 hrs. Maybe 10-20 runs at the drag strip. To date, the rotella was faster than the mobil 1 15/50….
I want a lighter oil. I want a reliable oil. I see your list.
I have been told the Mobil1 0w40 is a good hearty oil..its a Heavy 30wt not really a full 40wt), I see it on your list. I also see the mobil 1 racing 5w30 on your list…(shocked at your rating -psi).
Would you care to recommend an oil?
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Hi Harry,
As you are probably aware, roller motors are not finicky about what oil they use, like flat tappet motors are. So, roller motors can use many different oils without any major issue.
But, the fact that you are here asking for a recommendation, indicates you would like to run an excellent motor oil that will provide the best wear protection for your engine.
You came to the right place for CORRECT/FACTUAL Engineering information that is backed-up by hard Engineering Test Data. I am the ONLY one anywhere, who backs-up everything I post with hard data, proving everything I say.
You will only find reliable and accurate information right here in my Engineering Blog. I started my Blog 10 years ago so that Car Guys would FINALLY have some place to go for TRUE information.
And I have numerous Blog reader testimonials in the body of my Blog, PROVING that my Engineering Test Data EXACTLY MATCHES real world experience.
The notions that High Performance engines need High ZDDP and/or Heavy Duty Diesel oils, are pure nonsense. They are only MYTHS that were just “made-up” by unqualified and incompetent people. And now they are perpetuated on Automotive Forums and elsewhere, by people who have no idea what they are talking about. But of course, repeating BAD/WRONG information a million times, does NOT make it magically become true.
Anything you read or are told about motor oil that is not backed-up by hard Engineering Test Data, is only opinion, theory, speculation, or guessing.
The fact is, Engineering Test Data has PROVEN over and over again, that Heavy Duty Diesel oils produce low psi numbers, and they reach the onset of thermal breakdown sooner than the better, far superior gas engine oils.
Also, experience and Engineering Test Data, have shown time and time again, that High ZDDP motor oils, including Break-In oils, typically produce very low psi numbers, and actually are very likely to CAUSE wear, damage and failure. That’s why flat tappet engines keep wiping lobes when they use High ZDDP oils.
ZDDP is just an old, outdated, obsolete anti-wear component from the last century. It has been FAR SURPASSED by modern, proprietary, 21st century anti-wear formulations. That’s why many new API SP motor oils are SO MUCH BETTER than old style high ZDDP oils. Hotrodders and Racers need to get with the program and switch to the newer oils, if they want the best protection for their engines.
When it comes to the TRUTH about motor oil wear protection capability, the ONLY thing that matters, is the psi value an oil can produce in my Engineering Torture Test on motor oil. The HIGHER the psi value, the BETTER the wear protection capability.
*****
You did not say what sort of engine clearances you are running, nor if you are running a standard volume oil pump, or a high volume oil pump. Both of those have a great impact on the “HOT” oil pressure your engine is capable of generating.
The old rule of thumb for High Performance and Racing engines, is that they should produce “at least” 10 psi of “HOT” oil pressure at normal operating temperature, for every 1,000 rpm. For example, you want to see “at least” 40 psi of “HOT” oil pressure at 4,000 rpm, etc, etc.
My number 1, All-Time BEST, Record Setting psi motor oil, which produces THE BEST Wear Protection Capability ever recorded, is modern 5W30 Quaker State Full Synthetic (QSFS), API SP. And you can even get great prices on it at Walmart.
I use 5W30 QSFS in ALL of my own engines, including old school flat tappet, modern stock and High Performance, big cubic inch, and Supercharged.
I have numerous Drag Racer readers who use that 5W30 QSFS oil in their old school flat tappet race engines, with GREAT success.
So, “IF” your engine can generate acceptable “HOT” oil pressure with a 5W30 motor oil, that oil is your answer for a lighter, reliable oil.
With all other things being equal, the thinner/lighter the motor oil, the quicker your car will be at the Drag Strip, because of less viscous drag, which frees more HP to move the car.
However, if your engine requires a thicker oil to maintain acceptable “ HOT” oil pressure, then I recommend using 0W40 Amsoil Signature Series motor oil.
Just to clarify, I found 2 types of packaging for the Valvoline gear oil. So wanted to ask which is the one you tested? Please and thanks.
1. Valvoline FlexFill Full Synthetic 75W-90
2. Valvoline SynPower 75W-90
Thanks much and talk soon
~Paul
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Hi again Paul,
I tested Valvoline FlexFill Full Synthetic 75W-90. That is the one you want. Just so you know, “FlexFill” is only a reference to the container the gear oil comes in, which often makes it more convenient to put in the vehicle. But, the gear oil itself is called “Valvoline Full Synthetic 75W-90”.
Valvoline SynPower 75W-90 is an older gear oil Valvoline no longer produces, and is no longer shown on their website. Though there is likely a lot of it still in warehouses.
And they have dropped the “SynPower” name, which is no longer on their current products.
Hello 540Rat.
I looked at Mobil 1’s website and at their product data sheet and saw that their 15w50 is now API SP rated as well the FS 0w40and FS 5w40 . I talked to a rep at Mobil 1 to confirm and he said “this is correct.” I was wondering if you would be testing any of those for air-cooled equipment? Thanks again! – Joe
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Hi Joe,
Here we go again. That Mobil 1, 15W50 was the source of some uncomfortable discussions here a few months ago, regarding whether or not it was really API SP.
At that time, I could not find anywhere on their website showing that it was really API SP. And I could not find an API SP version in person either.
But, one of my readers insisted it was API SP. He even sent a picture of it showing API SP. So, the whole thing was a total mess. And I said I would not touch that Frankenstein oil with a 10 foot pole.
Now, I just looked at TWO different Mobil 1 links, and AGAIN, including their product data sheet, neither one showed it as API SP. Apparently Mobil 1 is incompetent. They can’t even get their website right.
I don’t know what you are looking at on-line that shows it as API SP. But, if it is that hard to find, I would not trust it.
If I ever come across Mobil 1, 15W50 in person that has API SP on the bottle, I “might” get one to test.
But, I’m not as much of a fan of Mobil 1 oils, as some of my readers are. Because their performance is very inconsistent on psi value, and their performance at higher temperatures can be rather poor as well.
I never use Mobil 1 oils myself, and I never recommend their oils either. So, I would have to decide if testing a newer version of their 15W50 is worth my time, effort, and money.
Plus, I lost all respect for the Mobil 1 Brand when they came out with their extremely poor performing 5W30 Annual Protection oil, which is ranked a pathetic 178th out of 286 motor oils tested so far. That oil is a TOTAL scam from a dishonest Company, that is only intended to separate gullible people from their money.
And their prior/current Mobil 1, 15W50 is horrible, with a value of only 70,235 psi, which ranks it a miserable 237th out of 286 oils tested so far. So, I wouldn’t hold my breath for a newer version to be WAY better.
There are plenty of other oils, and some are quite good, to choose from in my Tech Article on Air-Cooled Engine Oils. So, no one “needs” another Mobil 1 oil.
XW40 oils are NOT thick enough to be acceptable choices for air-cooled engines.
Only XW50 and XW60 oils are truly suitable for air-cooled engines.
You can NEVER trust anything a Company Rep ever says. They are every bit as bad as a Used Car Salesmen.
Hello Mr. Rat,
I was Canadian Tire today looking for deals on oil and the only one on sale was the Mobil 1 annual protection. I initially thought it should be at least as good as their other stuff because its Mobil synthetic – and then the rational part of my brain kicked in and said don’t buy it unless I see some psi numbers! Glad I happened upon this QandA.
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Hi Dean,
The is “no guarantee” that a Mobil 1 Synthetic motor oil will automatically be a good oil. There are a good number of Mobil 1 Synthetic motor oils that are poor performers that are not worth using.
For some reason, people tend to think all Mobil 1 oils are great. But, that is simply NOT true. All anyone has to do is read through my whole Wear Protection Ranking List.
Then they can see for themselves, that some Mobil 1 oils perform well, and some Mobil 1 oils perform poorly. But, you cannot know which is which until you look through my Ranking List.
Mobil 1 Annual Protection was “On Sale” for one reason. It is because that overly expensive, poor performing oil, was discontinued after one year because of poor sales.
So now, places that have it in stock, are still trying to dump their old stock of it by putting it “On Sale” just to get rid of it.
You did the right thing by avoiding it. Because it is not worth using even if it was free. A massive 177 other motor oils on my Ranking List perform BETTER than that oil.
Motul 75w90 is out of stock just about everywhere. Those that do have it in stock want ridiculous $$$ per quart.
Is there an alternative gear oil you would recommend since the Motul is unobtanium?
Thanks again for all your hard work!
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Hi again,
I’m not sure why you would think that Motul Gear Oil is “The Gear Oil” to use. Because there is “nothing” special about Motul. It is NOT the Best performing Brand. Motul is just another “ordinary” Brand.
But, I suspect Automotive Forum people say Motul is the greatest Brand out there. However, Automotive Forums only throw out Bad/Wrong information. Because the unqualified people there have no idea what they are talking about. Automotive Forums are THE WORST places to ever go for information.
I started my Engineering Blog 10 years ago, so that Car Guys would FINALLY have a place to go for the “Truth”.
Not only do I have an alternative to Motul Gear Oil for you, I have a “Significantly Superior” Gear Oil for you.
In my Engineering Torture Test on Lubricating Oils, these two Gear Oils produced:
Motul 75W90 Gear 300 Fluid = 103,868 psi
Valvoline 75W-90 Full Synthetic Gear Oil = 121,502 psi, which provides 17% BETTER WEAR PROTECTION than the Motul 75W90.
NOTE: The HIGHER the psi value, the BETTER the Wear Protection Capability.
So, if you use Valvoline 75W-90 Full Synthetic Gear Oil, you will be MUCH BETTER OFF, than if you used the Motul you originally had in mind.
Thought you’d be interested in my oil report on the Coyote with the first fill of QSFS 5w30 – by comparison, *significantly* less iron and less overall other wear metals than the previous test which ran Pennzoil Platinum 5w30. That was also during harder working conditions for the engine (cold, short runs etc.)
Once again, the regional(?) Costco Kirkland Signature 5w30 oil is on sale (among their other offerings, including a diesel oil) and i was reminded that other, lesser testing than you perform, showed it to be a pretty reasonable oil, especially for the price, then remembered you didn’t have a test of it 😀
The recent gear oil discussions reminded me that i needed to order some more Valvoline 75w90 for the front diff as it’s due a change, i do like the Flexfill containers, they were really convenient on the Amsoil 75w140.
Take care
Maxx,
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Hi again Maxx,
No, I have not tested Costco/Kirkland labeled 5W30 motor oil because their Management refused to sell me single quart to test. And I was not about to buy a case of low priced, low quality motor oil, just to test one quart, then dump the whole rest of the case. So, I will never test that oil.
Do NOT be gullible enough to believe that any “lesser” testing on motor oil has any value at all.
I spent a LOT of time, a LOT of effort, and a LOT of money, drawing from my years as a Professional Mechanical Engineer and Car Guy, to develop my proprietary Engineering Test Protocol on motor oil, that EXACTLY matches real world experience.
NO ONE ELSE ANYWHERE, has access to my Engineering Test Protocol. Because it is my own Intellectual Property that will never be shared. So, my Engineering Test Data is the ONLY Test Data that is accurate and reliable.
Thanks for sharing the info on your 5W30 QSFS (Quaker State Full Synthetic, for those not familiar with the abbreviation) used oil Lab Test report.
That is yet another validation of the accuracy of my Engineering Torture Test on motor oil, which shows 5W30 QSFS to provide THE BEST wear protection on the market today.
It is ranked “NUMBER 1”, producing an amazing 152,674 psi, which is the HIGHEST/BEST value ever recorded for wear protection capability, out of a whopping 286 motor oils tested so far.
EVERY Race, traditional flat tappet, Supercharged, Turbocharged, European, and Motorcycle, water-cooled, gas engine that can use 5W30, is BEST served and BEST protected by using 5W30 Quaker State Full Synthetic, API SP. And the icing on the cake, is that you can even get great prices on it at Walmart.
5W30 Quaker State Full Synthetic, API SP, is SO GOOD, that it is CLEARLY THE BEST CHOICE for anyone who lives where this oil is available. ANYONE, and I mean ANYONE, who can use 5W30, and has this motor oil available to them, but chooses to use some other oil, has made the WRONG decision.
Since you have to buy motor oil anyway, it is obvious that it makes the most sense to buy the BEST oil while you are at it.
And for the record, I have NO CONNECTION at all to Quaker State. So, what oil anyone chooses to use, does not affect me one way or the other. I am simply sharing the results of my UNBIASED, and 100% HONEST, Engineering Test Data.
So I went and bought a bunch of the Valvoline 75w90 synthetic gear oil.
Going to be honest I’m a little on the fence, granted It’s cold out right now here in North Texas, in the 40s but compared to the motul and the amsoil this Valvoline and my clutch type LSDs don’t like each other.
If I have to put a friction modifier in I suppose I could do that. But I’m trying to stay away from having to buy all these multiple things and creating a witch’s brew. I don’t know. I might look into the amsoil of 75w110.
Either way, thought I’d share. See if you had any opinion. As always, thanks for reading and appreciate your tutelage.
Thanks and talk soon
Paul~
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Hi again Paul,
Valvoline 75W90 Full Synthetic Gear Oil is “FORMULATED FOR and RECOMMENDED FOR” Limited Slip Differentials (LSD). That’s why I recommended it. Do NOT add anything to it.
40+*F weather is not that extreme. That gear oil has been used in countless Limited Slip Differentials. And I have NEVER heard of any complaints before. So, it is odd that you would have an issue.
Saying “they don’t like each other” is not exactly a technical description. Could you be more technically specific about exactly what you are experiencing, and under what conditions, that you did not experience with Motul or Amsoil?
The LSD’s in the front and rear now clatter / chatter pretty strong during slow turning with the Valvoline 75w-40 Synthetic Gear Oil. When before they did not, while using Motul Competition and the Amsoil Gear oils. The LSDs would tighten up during turning and you would here the inner tires (of the turn) skip on the pavement but would not chatter or clatter. If that makes sense?
…Sorry amendment , “…..skip on the pavement but the LSDs* would not chatter or clatter. If that makes sense?”
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It sounds like your particular clutch packs with their particular friction material, are exactly at the grip/slip transition point, to allow turning without tires skidding/wearing on the pavement (which is the whole point of having a clutch pack vs a locked differential) with that Valvoline Gear Oil, at the temperatures they are seeing now.
Does that noise problem go away once the differentials and gear oil are fully warmed-up? If it does, then I would keep the Superior Valvoline Gear oil.
But, if the noise does not go away after being fully warmed-up, then you should not have to live with that noise.
If that is the case, then unfortunately, you will have to give up the Superior Wear Protection Capability and reduced tire wear with that Valvoline Gear Oil. And then you’ll have to go back to one of the other gear oils that will provide less differential wear protection, and cause tire skidding/wear in turns.
As always thanks for your advice and help, means a lot!
You would advise against or condone adding a friction modifier? I’m not opposed to that to try and keep the better protection. Based on your previous comment it seems you warrant against. Curious if it degrades? Ultimately I’m down $200 almost on gear changes so far and would like to use this oil for a bit if I can add a less expensive additive. 😐🤪
If not I’m good to go. 😎
Thanks much and talk soon.
~Paul
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Hi,
Our messages were tripping over each other again. So, go back an reread my response just before this one.
Valvoline says NOT to add anything to this Gear Oil.
To answer you question about the noise and temp. I noticed it intensifies when warmer.
~Paul
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OK, a few last questions.
1. Do you hear the noise during very slow turning such as when maneuvering in a parking lot?
2. Or do you hear the noise in faster turns such as when turning a street/road corner when you did not stop first, in other words, turning a corner while still rolling at a decent mph?
If you are not sure, go test both types of turning with your window open.
3. Are your differential clutch packs stock, or have the clutch friction plates been replaced with “aftermarket” friction plates?
3. No; They are Cusco Type RS LSDs. Which I have arranged the plates to provide 70% Lock, not a full 100% ( which has been working great on the street and track for years now )
(Time to make coffee (5:21am here 😉 ) I assume your blog time is not set?)
Thanks for your help on this!
~Paul
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Hi again Paul,
My Blog is of course on the Internet, so it is available 24/7/365. I don’t have to be here, except to respond to Q&A Messages, or to make updates to the body of the Blog.
OK, we have finally gotten to the “cause” of your issue – which is your AFTERMARKET differentials. That explains why I have never heard of an issue with this Valvoline Gear Oil before. Most other diffs don’t have an issue with it.
We could have saved several back and forth messages if you had mentioned the aftermarket diffs in your first message about this issue – always look at what has been changed from original, first.
That is the kind of thing you can run into with Street/Strip vehicles. They are not quite dedicated Race vehicles, and they are not normal Street vehicles either.
So, you are now between a rock and a hard place. You now have a hard decision to make. Here are your choices:
1. Leave everything “as is” to have the diffs the way you want them, AND to have excellent diff wear protection. You could throttle it up, ignore the noise, or simply turn the radio up. 😊
2. Add some limited slip diff fluid even though Valvoline says it is not needed. And see how it goes.
3. Revise your clutch pack set-up to more or less lock as desired to eliminate the issue. And keep the excellent diff wear protection.
4. Go back to stock diffs, and keep the excellent diff wear protection.
5. Change the gear oil back to what you had before, and accept LESS diff wear protection.
Your call…Let me know what you end up doing, that you are satisfied with.
LOL. No I was referring to the time stamps on comments. e.g. 11:04pm when I posted around 5pm cst. 🙂
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We are tripping over each other’s messages again. Be sure to go back and read my now completed message before this one.
Yeah, my Blog’s time is a default setting that doesn’t mean anything. Texas is 2 hours ahead of me.
Heheh, I was eavesdropping while you where compiling your response and noticed the part about the blog time. 🙂
I notice those things since I’ve ben designing and making sites for the past 18 years.
So I’m going to try #2 and see how it reacts. If it doesn’t improve i’ll switch to Amsoil 75w-110 mainly because when I had the Amsoil 75w-90 my drive train quieted up and smoothed out, noticeably. But hopefully with the 75w-110 I’ll get that same “smoothness” but better wear protection than the 75w-90.
(A Little history) I had been running Motul Competition Gear Oil 75w-140 for years and the times I’ve changed it the magnets on the tranny and rear diff only had SMALL amounts of VERY fine metal deposit [ Like powder ] (I assume LSD clutch plate material). Never any chunks or large build up. Yet I have noticed that with that gear oil the drive train always seemed to be more “vocal” then necessary. Hence going down this path of finding new oils for the ‘ol girl.
So far the Amsoil selection and experience has been great. Just need to find the best balance. (motor oil selection is locked in! 🙂
All I can say so far is I’m grateful for your time all around and many thanks!!!
I’ll keep you posted on my findings with the additive or if I switch.
Thanks as always and lurk mode activated.
~Paul
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😊
Hello Mr. Rat,
I bought some Valvoline synthetic 75w140 gear oil and the LSD friction modifier additive from Ford. The Valvoline description says its recommended for limited slip differentials. I was wondering if that means it can be used as is or if I still need to add LSD friction modifier additive.
Dean
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Hi Dean,
When Gear Oil says it is formulated for Limited Slip differentials, that means it ALREADY HAS the required additives for Limited Slip diffs. So, you use it “as is”. You do NOT have to add anything more to it.
Just leave Ford’s additive on the shelf unopened in case you might need it in the future.
Wonder how much the “wear protection” is effected?
Anyways, thanks again
~Paul
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Hi again Paul,
Awesome! I’m glad to see that took care of your issue.
Hard to say what that does to the wear protection capability of the Valvoline 75W90 Full Synthetic Gear Oil.
All I can say is that I have plenty of data showing that aftermarket motor oil additives, make the motor oil “worse overall” than it was to begin with. But, that may or may not be the same situation here with your gear oil.
And I wonder just how much the differential clutch packs are slipping now, when you don’t want them to. Hopefully, you only added a little Slip Lock to try it out. You can always add more. But, a little at a time allows you to sneak up on it and only use what you need.
Take note of what your inside tires do now in a corner. And see if they still skid the tires on the pavement like previous gear oils did. The tires are not supposed to skid. But, that would be a point of comparison.
In general, just evaluate the performance overall of the diffs and see what you think.
One question for you. How do you get Amsoil products so fast, when virtually no brick and mortar stores carry their products? So, you typically can’t just walk in and buy something.
I always have to order their products, which then typically takes a day or two for an order to arrive. But, you seem to get their products the same day. What’s your secret?
I just seem to luck out. The Amsoil was 2 day delivery time since there is a Amsoil hub near me in the DFW area. The Valvoline happened to be on hand at a local NAPA store and the Slip Lock was on Amazon and showed up next day. (I had ordered it the other day as back up.) 🙂
I saw the discussion here about the 15W50 Mobil 1 a few days ago. Here is my 2 cents on all that.
It seems that many people on car forums consider Mobil 1 to be one of the top oil brands. They just think anything they sell will be top notch.
They have no proof of anything. They just think that Mobil 1 is good based on feelings and not much more. They are swayed by Mobil 1 advertising and by the bottles looking kind of cool. They have no data other than when they have used it, their engines did not blow up.
I’ve used most major oil brands at different times over the years. And I could never really tell any difference. None of my engines ever blew up. As near as I could tell, they all seemed about the same. I could not tell one from the other if I had been put in a blind test of some sort.
Then I found your Blog. With your Engineering Test Data, now we can see exactly how all these oils are different. Thank you for all your efforts. Now we can easily buy the best oil with confidence.
Just for fun, I checked a few auto parts stores in my area. Surprisingly I did find Mobil 1 15W50. They were all the older API SN version. I never did find any with the supposed latest API SP label.
I don’t understand why people want you to test that oil in a newer version. We have all learned from you that low cold viscosity ratings are important during startup and warmup. 0W and 5W oils are desirable. And higher cold viscosity ratings are not desirable. That means 15W50 is not a good choice.
You already have a Mobil 1, 5W50 oil in your air cooled engine article which did very well. That should be good enough for those who just have to have a Mobil 1 oil. Asking for data on 15W50 that is an undesirable viscosity makes no sense to me.
Thanks for everything you do.
Zenyatta
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Hi there,
You are 100% correct on all the points you made. You have been a good student of my Blog, and you have learned well.
Yes, in my Tech Article #69 on air-cooled engine oil, 5W50 Mobil 1, FSX2 did very well. It is ranked 6th out of 15 oils tested there. And with its excellent 5W50 viscosity rating, it is an excellent choice for any air-cooled engine. So, Mobil 1 lovers should be perfectly happy with this oil for air-cooled engines.
Even “IF” a newer version of the regular Mobil 1, 15W50 produced the same psi value as the 5W50 Mobil 1, FSX2, the 15W50 would be a poor choice because of its undesirable 15W cold viscosity rating.
Since that 15W50 Mobil 1 discussion here a few days ago, I went to Walmart and to O’Reilly’s Auto Parts Store, looking for the supposed new API SP version of it. I found regular 15W50 Mobil 1 at both places. But, they both only had the older/current API SN version. So far as I can tell in-person, an API SP version of that oil simply does not exist. At least not in my area.
Since its 15W50 viscosity is undesirable anyway, even if a newer version does eventually show up, it is not worth my time, effort, or money to test it.
It’s the 2022 WRX guy again. As I stated last time my first oil change in the WRX I used Quaker State Full Synthetic with a Wix oil filter.
The factory oil I assume was Subaru 0W-20 (made by Idemitsu)
After the oil change I noticed my oil temperature ran a few degrees cooler. QSFS 5w-30 being thicker should theoretically run slightly warmer?
The outside temperature was the same and even warmer and the QSFS oil just seemed to run cooler in that engine. Oh, the WRX does have a digital oil temperature gauge.
Is it possible that the QSFS reduced friction causes cooler temps?
Again, thanks for all the work you have done. Thought you would be interested in my oil temp observation.
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Hi again,
Yes, I am interested to read about your oil temperature observation. Thanks for sharing.
And yes, traditionally, oil temperatures have typically increased as oil viscosity increases. Because thicker oil flows slower through the engine, and does not cool as well.
0W16, 0W20 and 5W20 are thinner than ideal. And are only intended to possibly, ever so slightly improve gas mileage. Though Owners can never measure any advantage compared to 0W30 or 5W30.
0W30 and 5W30 are “THE IDEAL” viscosity OVERALL for flow, lubrication, cooling, minimizing mechanical engine noise, and for engine wear protection, especially when run aggressively.
In addition to that, the fairly recent API SP revision, especially in the case of 5W30 Quaker State Full Synthetic, API SP, has approached being a Revolutionary change, rather than merely an Evolutionary change.
And yes, its friction reduction formulation reduces heat. Because friction means heat. So, less friction equals less heat.
We are fortunate to have the truly impressive 5W30 Quaker State Full Synthetic, API SP, readily available to us. And we can even get good prices on it at Walmart.
Seeing as how no oil manufacturer is to be trusted in relaying to the public any formulation changes to their oils, do you think it would be prudent to retest the top tier oil/oils in your list every two years or so? I know I would be willing to chip in for the costs and I bet more of your followers would feel the same just for the peace of mind.
Thanks for all you do!
Rich
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Hi Rich,
In a perfect world, that might be something to consider. But, performing my Engineering Torture Test on motor oil, is a huge effort, and takes a lot of time, money aside. So, it simply is not feasible to endlessly test oils.
My Engineering Tests have clearly shown, essentially the only motor oils today that are truly “Top Tier” performing oils, are some of the better, latest API SP oils.
None of the other motor oils even matter. Because the poor performing API SP and non-API motor oils should not be used, if people care about their engines.
We know when API motor oils are reformulated by changes in API certification, such as when they made the significant change from API SN Plus, to API SP.
If they were to change their oils for the worse, they would no longer meet their standing API certification, and could no longer legally be sold showing that standing certification.
With API certified oils in the past, it has been clear that a change was made, be it an API revision, or product name change. That was the case when Castrol ruined their oils. They had name changes and/or API revisions, which is what prompted me to retest them. That’s when I caught them in the act of ruining their oils.
The extremely poor performance of non-API oils such as High Zinc Racing Oils, etc, are really irrelevant, and are not worth retesting. So, we don’t care if they secretly change their formulations.
In the real world, I now typically retest the better performing oils only at API changes, which are significant. That is enough to ensure that we are getting what we need/want.
(First, I want to ask, do you default see my previous posts on your monitor, or do you have to scroll back, manually?)
So far, I’ve figured out to receive a big box of super fine Amsoil 10W50 DirtBike oil (for a acceptable price), and replaced the timing chain.
But, the Quaker State QSFS for my cars….. No official EU-import company is found, yet. QuakerState.com don’t reply.. I only got in contact with some “local” US sparepart importers, which calculated prices between $49-58 pr. Quart! (NOT a typo) So I’m still searching 😉
During (previously) investigation, I discovered this engine oil tests, in EU:
1.a. Engine oil shear test.
XXX…
1.b. Results of shear tests.
XXX…
I’m all sure, you have some comments to this test…..
And NOT to forget, I’m still both very interested & impressed regarding this fabulous oil blog, THANK YOU!
Take care Sir!
KR.
Carsten.
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Hi again Carsten,
I have to scroll back manually to see your previous posts.
I do not allow links in my Blog. But, I did view both links you sent me, then I deleted them.
I do have a comment about that oil test. A lot of time and effort was obviously spent on that test. And he wants to charge people money to see more of it.
However, it clearly did NOT involve qualified, Degreed Mechanical Engineers. So unfortunately, it is crudely designed and poorly executed, making it just worthless garbage.
If you want to see Accurate and Reliable Engineering Test Data, that has been “PROVEN” TO EXACTLY MATCH real world experience, you still need to come to my Blog. Then look at my “Wear Protection Ranking List”, that you can easily make use of the next time you buy motor oil.
I have just stumbled across your blog this morning, awesome!
Should I go to Quaker State full synthetic 5W30 in a 2023 GR supra 3 L premium, recommended 0W20?
And 2015, Boxster GTS, recommended 5W40 to QS 5W30 synthetic?
Thank you in advance,
Frank
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Hi Frank,
Sorry to take so long to respond to your message. But, your message did not come in correctly. So, I just now came across it in my Spam Folder, 4 days after you sent it. Hopefully, you will find this response.
0W20 and 5W20 viscosities are THINNER THAN IDEAL for most water-cooled, gasoline powered engines. They are only intended to perhaps ever so slightly help gas mileage. But, Owners can never measure any improvement when compared to 0W30 or 5W30.
XW40 viscosities are THICKER THAN IDEAL for most water-cooled, gasoline powered engines.
0W30 and 5W30 are “THE IDEAL” viscosities for most water-cooled, gasoline powered engines.
5W30 Quaker State Full Synthetic, API SP is a FAR BETTER choice for your Supra.
5W30 Quaker State Full Synthetic, API SP is “also” a FAR BETTER choice for your Boxter. But in this case, since you are going to a thinner oil than you have been using, be sure to confirm that your fully warmed-up, normal operating temperature “Oil Pressure” is good. It should be fine, but you should double check it initially to be sure.
Thank you so much Rat!
Surely, I (only) use your results, regarding oil for my water- and aircooled engines, gearbox and differentials.
If I cannot get the QSFS 5W30, chances for the Amsoil Signatures Series are better, but, so far, I’ve only got the 10W30 option, and that is to thick for winter use.
I’ll keep you informed what’s going on “over here”… 😉
Keep safe,
Carsten.
You are my go to Technical expert. And I need your help. I’ve been trying to break loose some old rusted nuts with WD40. But it does not work. What should I be using that would actually work?
Thanks,
Zenyatta
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Hi there,
Thanks for thinking of me as your “GO TO” Technical Expert. I appreciate the kind words.
I’ve been wrenching on machines since I was a teenager. And along the way, I’ve run into many old rusted/corroded fasteners. So, I’ve had the opportunity to use WD40 and Kroil. Both of them turned out to be essentially worthless when you REALLY need a good penetrating oil.
But, you’ve come to the “right place” for the help you need. THE BEST penetrating oil I have ever used, and continue to use today, which has NEVER let me down, is a penetrating oil generally referred to as “PB BLASTER”.
Technically, the largest wording on the spray can says:
That Company has a number of different products. So, be sure you get the “exact product” I’ve indicated.
A 4 oz spray can is typically plenty for personal use, though it also comes larger. You can find it at Hardware Stores, Auto Parts Stores, or of course on-line. A 4 oz spray can usually costs around $5.00 give or take, depending on where you get it.
Here’s how I recommend using it:
1. If you have access, use a toothbrush sized wire brush to remove all visible, rust/corrosion/crust. That way the fastener itself will be open to the best application of the PB BLASTER.
2. Depending on the particular case, the length of time to soak, and number of applications of PB BLASTER can vary widely. So, just keep soaking the fastener until it finally breaks free. It could take 20 minutes, or it could take two days for the most stubborn case you are likely to ever encounter. But as I said, PB BLASTER has never let me down, even in cases that were thought to be impossible.
Hello Mr. Rat,
I have a limited slip differential on my 2014 F150 9.75 inch axle. When it engages in the snowy conditions – mainly at lower speeds negotiating the deep snow on the driveway – it shudders to the point of making the whole vehicle shake. Would you know what that would be symptom of ? It still has the factory fill in it and its at 130,000 km. I thought I would ask here first because I don’t care to set foot in a Stealership. The fluid level is correct and I am inclined to think it may be a fault with the factory fill or it may be degradation of the friction modifier additive over the years. But that ia only speculation on my part.
Dean
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Hi again Dean,
Does this ONLY happen in REALLY cold snowy conditions, BEFORE the gear oil has warmed-up? Gear Oil warms-up just like motor oil warms-up. Though gear oil has a normal operating temperature of only around 180*F (82*C), in moderate ambient (surrounding air) temperatures.
Or have you also noticed this problem at more mild temperatures? Odd things can sometimes happen when it is REALLY cold.
If it ONLY happens in REALLY cold snowy conditions, with REALLY cold gear oil, then it is only a temperature generated condition.
But, if you just can’t stand it, then here is what I suggest:
About a week ago, you said you bought some Valvoline synthetic 75w140 gear oil and the LSD friction modifier additive from Ford.
As you stated, the Valvoline Gear Oil description says its recommended for limited slip differentials (LSD), which means it does not need friction modifier added to it.
You have enough miles/kms on the factory gear oil, that the first thing I would do is change the gear oil to the Valvoline Gear Oil you bought. Then see how that goes.
If things are still not to your satisfaction, add some of that Ford friction modifier, even though that Gear Oil is not supposed to need it, a little at a time, until the shuddering goes away.
Hello Mr. Rat,
PSA regarding limited slip differentials – if anyone ever has to run a spare in the back, both tires have to be the exact same size on each side otherwise the Limited slip mechanism will destroy itself. If I ever get a flat in the back I’ll be using one of the front tires as replacement and put the spare on the front.
Dean
Hello Mr. Rat,
Good point about the cold weather, I never even thought of that. It occurred yesterday ( as usual ) after the 2 minute warm up as I drove out the long rural , snow covered driveway. After my next long trip ( 45 minutes of driving ) I’ll see if it acts up on the way back in.
Thank you for pointing the cold weather issue out.
In the news – A Norwegian ferry service denies EV’s entry onto their vessels because of their spontaneous combustion issues.
Dean
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Hi Dean,
Let me know how things work out with your differential.
Thanks for sharing the News about EV’s being denied entry because of their lithium ion batteries having a frightening tendency to burst into flames without warning. Those fires are extremely difficult to extinguish.
So, if this happens at night inside an attached home garage, it puts everyone asleep inside the house, in grave danger, as these lithium ion fires can burn everything near them, to the ground.
Just last week a Tesla EV was driving along normally on the freeway in Los Angeles and burst into flames. It did not hit anything. There was no crash. It simply burst into flames all on its own.
The Fire Department said it was so difficult to put the fire out, that it took a WHOPPING 20,000 gallons of water to extinguish it.
EV’s are THE WORST and MOST DANGEROUS vehicles ever created. If a gas vehicle model was this dangerous, it would immediately be taken off the roads.
But, since the whole EV Industry is the pet project of Politicians who are not of sound mind, and of insane radical climate fanatics, no one says a word, nor does anything about how dangerous EV’s are.
There is not a peep out of the US NHTSA (National Highway Traffic Safety Administration). Their whole purpose is vehicle SAFETY, but they are so Politically corrupt, that they put their misguided climate agenda ABOVE the lives of citizens.
Hello Mr. Rat,
As soon as I get my F150 back on the road I’ll post a message about cold vs. warmed up differential oil performance. The left front IWE ( Integrated Wheel End ) has just failed for the third time. That is the side that gets most of the salt exposure as they mostly salt and sand the middle of the road round these parts. The design itself is a bit of a faux pas because it will fail unpredictably at a time when you need it the most. Ford should have included a “system vacuum disconnect switch” on the dashboard so when it does fail no potential damage could occur to the system and you could still have 4wd.
EV’s – I saw an article where the CO2 emissions were calculated from gathering raw materials to finished product AND driving around once the vehicle gets on the road. The conclusion was that EV’s were on par with a regular sized 6 cylinder sedan but no advantage over a Naturally Aspirated 4 cylinder vehicle. These were mathematical FACTS that climate fanatics should look at ( but they never will because fanatics don’t seem to have the capacity for logic ).
Dean
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Hi again Dean,
Yes, anyone who buys an EV (electric vehicle) is either a complete idiot, or else simply ignorant of how “UNBELIEVABLY BAD” EV’s are in the real world.
“Some” of the biggest problems with EV’s are:
1. They are typically priced much higher than the FAR BETTER gas vehicles.
2. From time to time, EV’s lithium ion batteries spontaneously burst into flames with no warning. If this happens in an attached home garage at night, it puts everyone sleeping inside, in grave danger. This is a MAJOR SAFETY CONCERN that is simply being ignored. Climate agenda is being put above the lives of people.
3. When the battery charge is maintained between 20% and 80% for best battery life, the real world “range” is only about “HALF” of what the US EPA Estimated Range is. The EPA Estimated Range is “intentionally” false. Because of blatant corruption, they try to make EV’s seem way better than they really are. Buyer Beware!!!
4. The corrupt, climate fanatic Politicians and their EV Industry are SO DISHONEST, that they promote using “Fast Chargers” to reduce EV charging time from many hours, down to perhaps an hour or more, to make EV’s seem not so bad. But, their dirty little secrets, that they do NOT reveal, is that “Fast Chargers” cost a lot more to use, often costing more than buying gas. And that using “Fast Chargers”, hit the battery pack so hard and so quick, that it shortens the life of an EV’s HORRIBLY EXPENSIVE battery pack. But, they don’t care about you and the massive cost of the battery pack. They just want to get you into an EV, and let you deal with premature battery failure down the road.
5. COLD weather battery range is typically reduced by as much as 50% compared to mild weather range. And COLD weather recharging is a MAJOR PROBLEM. The batteries either take WAY LONGER than normal to charge, or they will not charge at all. So, your expensive EV can leave you stranded.
6. EV’s can’t really use their A/C in “hot” weather, because it runs the battery down too quickly.
7. EV’s can’t really use their heater in “cold” weather, because it runs the battery down too quickly.
8. Pick-up EV’s can’t really haul or tow, because doing that runs the battery down to quickly.
9. The never-ending aggravation of the time, and cost of recharging the battery, which is often more costly and ALWAYS WAY, WAY MORE TIME CONSUMING, than filling up a gas engine vehicle.
10. During summer heat waves, many areas encounter electricity shortages. Then Officials say to NOT use major appliances, and to NOT charge EV’s between 4 and 9 pm. Or else they may also resort to rolling blackouts. That of course means extreme difficulties for keeping an EV charged for many people. If you can’t charge your EV, you have no usable vehicle.
11. When the battery pack eventually fails and has to be replaced, which “naturally” is often much sooner than claimed, can cost tens of “thousands” of dollars.
12. Substantial unregulated global pollution is created in 3rd World Countries when mining materials to build EV’s. But, that is not taken into account when EV’s are claimed to be zero emissions vehicles. The FACTS indicate that after all things are considered, EV’s really don’t help the environment at all. These climate fanatics were WRONG AGAIN!!!
EV’s are THE WORST vehicles ever created!!! The whole notion of EV’s saving the planet, is based on lies and corruption.
More specifically, people who buy EV’s, are either insane climate fanatics who don’t know, or don’t care about the truth, or they are people too dumb to research what they are getting themselves into before buying one.
Whichever is the case, they deserve what they get. And if they have any brain at all, they will end up suffering SEVERE buyers remorse, and then go back to gas vehicles.
First, Thank you for investing the time and effort into producing this blog. I love having facts to base my decisions on. I am an engine builder with almost 40 years’ experience. I own and operate a very complete machine shop and dyno facility. (SuperFlow SF 901). I don’t pretend to know everything, but I have seen a lot of stuff. I have a comment and would like to hear your response. I only use flat tappet cams if it is the only option. A recent experience solidified my stance. I rebuilt a reverse rotation 351W boat engine. I requested a hydraulic roller cam from my company of choice. They informed me that there were no cores available. So, I had them grind me a flat tappet reverse rotation cam. (Basically, an RV cam) I bought their springs and lifters also. I used their cam lube and covered the cam and lifters completely. I used Quaker State Full synthetic oil to break in the engine on my dyno. The engine ran 8 minutes when the rockers started getting noisy. Upon disassembly I found 13 damaged cam lobes. Scored cylinder walls and pistons, and the crankshaft and bearings were trashed. I called the cam manufacturer and asked what I may have done wrong, not wanting to do the same thing again. I talked with an engineer at length and mentioned to him your wear protection testing and the fact that I had used an oil at the top of your list. His reply. Basically, we don’t know what could have caused the issue. He said “some of the guys in back have suggested that some oils may be so slick that the lifters do not establish a rotation pattern”. I bored the engine, turned the crank, installed the second identical cam and lifters. This time I used Amsoil breakin oil. The engine ran for 20 minutes. Since it was reverse rotation I could not make any pulls for power testing. I delivered the engine to the customers local mechanic shop They installed the engine, and the customer went to the lake. That was about 3 years ago. I assume (yes, I am fully aware of the meaning) the engine is still running since I have not heard back from him. I would love to hear your thoughts. DP in LA. (lower Arkansas)
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Hi David,
Yes, I have the answer for you. There is only ONE THING that can cause total engine destruction like that in 8 minutes, with no load on the engine (you said the reverse rotation prevented any dyno pulls). That is a textbook example of engine failure due to “oil starvation”, because oil was NOT being pumped through the engine.
Even the worst, cheapest, poorest performing, no name motor oil, would NOT have caused total engine destruction like that in 8 minutes with no load, if the oil had been flowing properly through the engine.
Your problem was NOT the oil. Your problem was THE LACK of oil flowing through the engine. If you spin a normal oil pump backwards, it will NOT pump oil through the engine. So, in a reverse rotation engine, you will need a different oil pump setup in order to pump oil through the engine.
This is also EXACTLY what happens if someone forgot to put oil in the engine, and it was running only on assembly lube. So, either the engine had an oil pumping problem, or the engine had no oil, or not enough oil in it.
Just so you know, Cam Companies typically do NOT employ actual qualified, Degreed Engineers. Whoever they put on the phone for you to talk to, may or may not have been given the fake title of Engineer. But, he almost certainly was NOT really an Engineer.
That’s why the guy you talked to there, and his people in the back, had no clue what happened to your engine. But, I am a qualified, experienced, Degreed Mechanical Engineer, and I immediately knew, exactly what caused your engine problem, based on your description.
The Major Corporation I worked for early in my career, did not actually have people with Engineering Degrees, in their U.S. Corporate Headquarters’ “Engineering Department”. Many companies just give out that job title that means nothing.
And it is quite common for Aftermarket Automotive Companies to have the word “Engineering” in their Company name, even though there is not one Degreed Engineer employed there.
And to clear up any confusion about Quaker State motor oil. 3 years ago, the full synthetic Quaker State motor oil was named “Ultimate Durability”. 5W30 Quaker State Ultimate Durability, API SN Plus, was being sold at that time. It was among my highest ranked oils, but it was NOT THE top ranked oil. So, you did NOT have the latest API SP motor oil in that engine.
Then 2 years ago, 5W30 Quaker State Full Synthetic (its “name” is Full Synthetic), API SP, an all-new, latest technology oil was introduced. This oil set the Highest, all-time BEST Wear Protection Capability ever recorded. And it is my Number 1 Ranked motor oil. I use it in ALL of my own engines from stock, to high performance, including a flat tappet engine.
Break-In oils are not needed, and never have been needed. Automakers have been making vehicles for over 100 years, and they have NEVER used Break-In oil.
The BIG NAME Oil Companies do NOT even make so-called Break-In oil. Because they know what they are doing.
I have been building engines for decades myself, and I have NEVER EVER used Break-In oil. And every engine I have built has been perfectly fine. I don’t even know anyone who has ever used Break-In oil.
Engineering Tests have shown over and over again, that Break-In oils are THE WORST performing motor oils on the market, and should NEVER be used.
In fact, the term “Break-In” itself is only a MYTH. Brand new engine components are “Forced” to immediately seat in with their mating components in order to carry the load being applied to them. So, no special “Human Controlled” Break-In process is required.
The latest 5W30 Quaker State Full Synthetic, API SP, has been used in many brand new engines from first fire, on, with no problems at all.
Many flat tappet engines, including dedicated Drag Race engines, have also been using 5W30 Quaker State Full Synthetic, API SP, with excellent results.
There is no reason to avoid flat tappet cams, “If” the engine is built properly, and you use the right motor oil.
Don’t assume your customer is happy only because you have not heard from him again. Because if he had a second blown engine from your Shop, he would almost certainly take it somewhere else.
BOTTOM LINE:
5W30 Quaker State Full Synthetic, API SP, is THE BEST performing motor oil on the market today. So, it is the best oil you can use in any of your engines that can run a 5W30 motor oil.
Here is my take. This whole electric vehicle EV push is the absolute dumbest thing I have ever seen Politicians try to ram down their citizens’ throats.
To put it bluntly, anyone who pushes or buys EV’s has sh** for brains.
Thanks for everything you do here in this Blog to help us normal car guys. Without this Blog, we would have nowhere to go for help.
Zenyatta
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Hi again,
You are totally correct about the insanity of EV’s.
I have to think that this whole EV thing will eventually collapse of its own failures. Because as more and more ignorant and uniformed people buy them, more and more people will learn how impossible, and how dangerous (because of their tendency to spontaneously burst into flames) it is to live with with all the shortcomings of an EV.
So, I expect EV sales will grow to a point, then reverse and fall. Time will tell…
Thanks for the kind words. Since most information out there about cars is completely WRONG, I am proud that my Blog is THE SOURCE for FACTUAL Engineering Information, that car guys can rely on.
I was a signature series Amsoil user in my 2018 3.5 Ecoboost F150 for about 4 years.
When I recently (about 1 year ago now) acquired my 2022 Powerboost F150 (Hybrid with the same 3.5 Ecoboost motor) I came across your blog and since I felt validated on my oil choice I was stunned to see your report on QSFS!
I drained the factory fill on the new truck at 1500 miles and purchased enough QSFS for 5 oil changes. It is an amazing value equation considering.
I’ve been changing oil at about 3000-3500 miles. I can’t help myself. I’m an old school old man. But my concern is that even at 3000 miles it seems thin on the way out compared to the fresh pour.
Blackstone analysis states no significant fuel dilution and plenty of additives still present. But both analysis also mention viscosity closer to 20W than 30W.
Also, although it could be placebo induced, I feel the motor is noticeably quieter with a fresh pour. The motor doesn’t sound disturbing in any way at 3000 miles, but I swear it’s quieter with the fresh oil.
Just curious what your thoughts are.
And I want to express my gratitude for all that you generously share. Thanks
Bruce
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Hi Bruce,
I would not put any faith in anything that comes from Blackstone, because they cannot be trusted. I know Automotive Forum people always talk about using Blackstone. But, those people are infamous for having no idea what they are doing.
Some years back, I caught Blackstone providing bad information for some analysis work I had them do for me. When I called them out for that, they denied it and lied about it. But, when I proved their error, they had to finally admit they performed the analysis wrong. Then they redid the test correctly, but I NEVER used them again since they are dishonest, incompetent, and therefore cannot be trusted.
I do not recommend that anyone use Blackstone. The whole idea of getting a used oil analysis (UOA) performed on your vehicle’s used oil, provides very little useful information, outside of wear metals. In fact, 99% of all vehicles on the road, have never had their used oil tested. And they do not litter the roads with blown engines.
You do NOT “need” a used oil analysis. So, you can avoid dealing with the time, hassle, cost of used oil testing if you simply use an excellent performing motor oil, such as 5W30 Quaker State Full Synthetic (QSFS), API SP, use a top quality oil filter such as Motorcraft, Purolator, or Bosch, and change the oil and filter at “reasonable” intervals.
It does not surprise me that Blackstone would say something as dumb as “viscosity is closer to 20W than 30W”, which is total NONSENSE. The oil would simply either be IN THE 5W20 range OR IN THE 5W30 range.
For example:
5W20 viscosity range at 100*C (212*F) is 5.6 cSt to <9.3 cSt.
5W30 viscosity range at 100*C (212*F) is 9.3 cSt to <12.5 cSt.
cSt = centistokes, a measurement of oil thickness. The higher the cSt value, the thicker the oil.
So, you can clearly see that a 5W30 would be IN ONE RANGE OR IN THE OTHER RANGE, NOT “CLOSER” TO ONE THAN THE OTHER, which makes no sense.
You said the report indicated no “significant” fuel dilution. But, that is not “zero” fuel dilution. You typically would not expect to see “any” measurable fuel dilution, especially at only 3,000 to 3,500 miles. So, there is evidently “some” fuel dilution. That could explain why the oil “seems” thinner when being drained, even though it is still most likely within its specified viscosity range.
“Some” measurable fuel dilution typically comes from a lot of short trips, where there are obviously a lot of COLD start-ups with their extra rich, fuel laden mixtures, and the engine is not run long enough to be fully warmed-up each time. That allows for undesirable build-up concentrations.
However, you did not provide any actual cSt values, showing that the oil was “out of grade”, so there is no indication of an actual viscosity concern. Without any values, I can’t address any specifics from their report.
All I can say is that “seems”, “feels”, and “swear” are words that on Forums, pass for something meaningful. But, they fall into the category of opinion, speculation, and guessing. And the truth is, they are totally worthless. Only “accurate” hard Test Data values provide information you can work with.
Just so you know, premium synthetic motor oils do not use viscosity improvers/modifiers that can degrade. So, the “oil itself” does not wear out or thin out. But, it can be diluted by fuel, condensation water, or coolant. And of course its additive package will degrade, and it will become contaminated.
*****
This recently came from one of my other Blog readers:
Thought you'd be interested in my used oil report on the Ford 5.0 Coyote V-8 engine with the first fill of QSFS 5w30 – by comparison, it had *significantly* less iron and less overall other wear metals than the previous test which ran Pennzoil Platinum 5w30. That was also during harder working conditions for the engine (cold, short runs etc.)
His information, did not show comparison values, but it was completely consistent with my Engineering Test Data that shows 5W30 Quaker State Full Synthetic, API SP, provides THE BEST wear protection ever recorded.
*****
The placebo effect on sound is the same thing as when you wash your car, and you would “swear” it runs better.
Just keep in mind that the engine should always be run at least a half an hour after it reaches full operating temperature. That will burn off unwanted normal condensation and other undesirable build-up.
Also, using 5W30 Quaker State Full Synthetic, API SP, and changing the oil at about 3000-3500 miles, will keep your 2022 Powerboost F150 very well protected.
Hello Mr Rat,
I disconnected and capped the vacuum line that operates the rubber diaphram engagement mechanism on the front wheels so no funny grinding noises AND I can still have 4wd until I get the IWE (integrated wheel end ) replaced at my leisure. I know this may beyond the subject of this blog but it may be useful to other 4×4 F- 150 owners. Its not if their IWE will fail but when – especially in colder climates.
Rear differential – I tested it at operating temperature on a smooth slippery surface ( patted down snow ) and no shuddering. I then tested it “cold” on a smooth slippery surface again and it was smooth as silk when it engaged ( watching both tires via rear view mirrors ). When I returned to my snow covered driveway it shuddered and shook again. So it is really a dynamic of how the rear tires compress and push themselves off in certain types of snow. ( Freshly fallen loose flakes, slightly melted, melted and then refroze, settled snow that didn’t melt yet, etc. ) When I got out and looked back I could see “waves” in the snow that would be commensurate with what I was experiencing in the vehicle. I was driving in “slightly melted” and “melted and refroze” snow which will pack under the wheel, compress and then launch it foward so to speak thus creating visible “waves” and shaking in the cabin. I also suspect it would not be a bad idea to replace the rear shocks too. General Grabber ATX’s are what’s on the truck and its certainly a testament to their ability to grip. I will still change the rear axle fluid anyway as it is time.
Dean
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Hi Dean,
Thanks for sharing your experience.
I consider this a “Technical Blog”, NOT exclusively an oil Blog, even though the primary focus is generally on oil.
Oil is the primary focus here, because my Blog is the ONLY source available anywhere, for FACTUAL Engineering information about oil, that EXACTLY MATCHES real world experience. NO ONE ELSE performs the comprehensive and valid, proprietary (confidential intellectual property that cannot be shared) Engineering oil testing that I do.
People CANNOT go to Automotive Forums, engine builders, Cam Companies, etc, for useful oil information. Because those places throw out only WRONG/BAD information, that is total NONSENSE, from unqualified, incompetent people who have no idea what they are talking about when it comes to oil.
Those people base everything they say on opinions, theories, assumptions, feelings, guessing, and belligerent anger. They are NEVER able to provide any supporting data to back-up anything they say. Everything they throw out is simply WORTHLESS GARBAGE.
So, my Blog is the ONLY place people can go for accurate and reliable, real world Engineering Test Data information on oil, that they can confidently make use of, the next time they buy oil.
If you browse through my “Table of Contents”, you will see that various Tech Articles here in my Blog, have nothing to do with oil at all.
So, a wide range of various Technical discussions here in this Q&A Section are perfectly fine.
Firstly, I want to thank you for testing Ravenol 5W30 VMP USVO oil. I sincerely appreciate it. Because Ravenol 0W30 VSW USVO had done so well on your ranking list (No. 5) I was hoping that the Ravenol VMP oil would rank similarly high but, alas, I was wrong. No. 23 isn’t bad but I was hoping for a top 10 finish, hehehe. Anyway, it is what it is, as they say.
I live in South Africa and, although Ravenol sells many of its lubricants here, it does not stock 0W30 VSW USVO oil. It does, however, sell the 5W30 VMP USVO oil. The sad thing about being a gearhead in South Africa is the fact that we don’t have access to the top 12 oils on your lubrication ranking list. I would LOVE to use Quaker State QSFS, Amsoil, or even Tribodyn or Mercury but none of these companies have a presence in South Africa.
Additionally, because of our weak currency, importing these oils from the US is out of the question. The highest ranking oil on your list, that IS available in South Africa, is No. 13: the Castrol GTX 5W30 / Prolong combination.
You won’t remember me, but I was one of the people who, back in 2013, asked you to test Prolong. I had already been religiously using Prolong since the early 2000’s and wanted to know if it really did reduce engine-friction.
Despite the bad press Prolong received I continued using it, figuring that, because I frequently change the oil on all of my vehicles (every 3000 – 5000 miles) the Chlorinated-Paraffins present in Prolong wouldn’t have much time to attack and corrode the engine-bearings.
In October last year I had the V345 (345 cu. in.) V8 engine out of my 1973 International Harvester 1310 rebuilt and I asked the guys at the automotive machine-shop to call me just after the tear-down of the engine. I explained to the owner of the machine shop that Prolong supposedly has a reputation of causing bearing-damage and I wanted to use the opportunity to inspect the bearings, and other wear-surfaces, for any kind of unusual, potentially corrosion-related damage. Long story short, for an engine that had done 280,000+ miles, it was in exceptional condition. No unnatural-looking, or unusual kind of wear or damage was found on any of the bearings or bushes. In fact, the owner of the machine shop told me that the only areas that really needed refurbishment/replacement was the cylinder-bores and piston-rings.
My dad has also been a religious user of Prolong in his vehicles for about as long as I have (20+ years) and, in January of this year, he had the 351 Cleveland engine out of his 1974 Ford Ranchero re-built by the same shop. After the same kind of inspection that was done on my International, they found the Ranchero’s high-mileage (250,000+ miles) Cleveland to be in very good condition.
Knowing what we were looking for in the inspections, and having refurbished thousands of engines over the years, the owner of the machine-shop said he could not find any unusual, previously unseen kind of wear – in addition to what would be considered normal for an old but well-maintained high-mileage engine.
I know that my dad and I can only speak for ourselves. I am also not trying to convince anyone to start using Prolong. The only thing I wanted to share was my experience with the long-term use of Prolong in older, American-made V8 engines.
I will be honest; I was more than a little worried that I would find damage that could be positively attributable to the use of Prolong but nothing unusual was found.
My hope is that this information might be of value to some of your readers who, like me, do not have access to oils made by top-notch companies like Quaker State, Amsoil, Ravenol, Mercury, etc.
In closing I would like to thank you for this excellent blog that you run, and for the professional, unbiased, fact-based work that you do. I – and so many others – consider you to be the world-authority on automotive lubrication testing.
Take care, 540 Rat.
Kind Regards,
Pat
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Hi Pat,
Thanks for getting in touch and sharing your experience with Prolong.
Prolong doesn’t just have bad press. Their product has damaged so many engines, that they have had to face Lawsuits about it. You used to be able to Google that and read about those Lawsuits. But, more recently, that information would not come up. It would seem they employed one of those Companies that are able to pull unfavorable info off of the Internet.
As you said, apparently because of the frequent oil change intervals you use on all of your vehicles (every 3000 – 5000 miles), the Prolong didn’t have enough time to attack and corrode the engine-bearings. Also, the particular motor oils you mixed it with, and the particular usage your vehicles were subjected to, were no doubt a factor as well. So, good for you. You have been very lucky, and have been able to dodge a bullet doing that.
But, others who mix Prolong with different motor oils, and subject their vehicles to different types of usage, may well suffer the catastrophic engine damage that Prolong is infamous for.
You are braver than I am. I would not be willing to risk my engines by using one of the worst aftermarket additives ever to be put on the market. Using that product is much like playing Russian Roulette with an engine. Chlorinated additives are so bad, that the Motor Oil Industry banned their use in new factory oil, many years ago.
However, I can understand your unique predicament, being in South Africa and not having access to the best motor oils available. And what works for your application, works. So, no one can argue with your results.
Nothing is absolute. Some people can live to a ripe old age, even though they chain-smoked for decades. But, others die at a young age, from causes related to smoking. So, you just never know.
But, my Engineering Blog is the “GO TO” source for FACTUAL information on providing what is BEST for our engines. So, I still have to go on record and say for everyone reading this, that I DO NOT RECOMMEND using any aftermarket motor oil additives. Because they typically ruin the oil’s carefully balanced Factory additive package, making the oil WORSE OVERALL, than it was to begin with.
Everyone is best served by selecting a Highly Ranked, High psi motor oil, in the appropriate viscosity for their application, from my Wear Protection Ranking List. That will provide your engine with the BEST possible wear protection. If the oil you chose, needs help, you have chosen the WRONG oil.
But, if you find yourself in Pat’s unique situation, where the best motor oils are not available to you, then unfortunately you just have to do the best you can.
By the way, just so you know, a number of years back, after BP bought Castrol motor oils, they ruined those oils, apparently to cut costs and maximize profits. Now, I do NOT use Castrol oils, I do NOT recommend them, and I do NOT waste my time, effort, or money to test them anymore.
Hi Rat!
A ‘short’ post from me 😉
Can you please confirm this transmission oil, I can get here in EU, is similar to the one you has ranked as #1 in your chart?
Amsoil Severe Gear Oil 75W-140.
XXX…
Is it suitable BOTH for manual 5-speed gearbox and AWD differential’s in my vechicles – also when manufacturer recommends “only” 75(80)W-90?
Wintertime, thin and fine, but will it be to thick at summertime? (have I missed something during studying your blog?!)
FYI: QuakerState QSFS is not to get over here (except you pay about $58,,, pr. Quart!), so I’ll stick with the Amsoil SS 5W-30 😉
Still *highly* appreciating your exiting, interesting post’s/updates very much!
KR.
Carsten.
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Hi again Carsten,
I viewed the link you sent me. And yes, it is the same Amsoil 75W140 Severe Gear Lube(Oil) I tested, that is ranked number 1 for gear oils.
All lubricating oils, no matter what their viscosity rating is, will get thicker and thicker as they get colder and colder. And they will get thinner and thinner as they get hotter and hotter.
Gear oils and motor oils use a different scale for their viscosity ratings, which means their viscosity values cannot be directly compared.
Here is how gear oil viscosity compares to motor oil viscosity:
75W90 gear oil has about the same viscosity as 10W40 motor oil.
75W140 gear oil has about the same viscosity as 20W50 motor oil.
That means the actual viscosity difference between 75W90 and 75W140 is not as large as 90 and 140 would suggest.
And keep in mind that they both have the same 75wt cold viscosity rating. They differ primarily in their 90wt and 140wt hot viscosity ratings. But again, we are talking the relatively small difference between the thicknesses of 10W40 and 20W50 motor oils that we are more familiar with. So, while there is a normal operational temperature thickness difference, that difference is not huge.
In a perfect world where we would change our gear oil with the seasons, we might want to use 75W90 in EXTREMELY COLD weather, so that the gear oil does not become overly thick.
And we might want to use 75W140 in EXTREMELY HOT weather, so that the gear oil does not become overly thin.
But in the real world, 75W90 or 75W140 can be used year around. The only real “overall” difference is 75W140 being a little thicker, will generate a little more viscous drag. If you could measure that very precisely, you may find that vehicle acceleration is “ever so slightly” reduced. And that fuel mileage may be “ever so slightly” reduced. However, Owners typically cannot tell any difference.
Amsoil says that their Severe Gear Oils can be used in differentials, including limited slip differentials, manual transmissions, and other gear applications requiring API GL-5 and MT-1. And that they can be used in differentials requiring API GL-4.
So, Amsoil 75W140 Severe Gear Lube(Oil) is fine to use in your vehicles, as long as you do NOT use it in an automatic transmission.
You can ignore a manufacturer’s recommendation to use “only” 75(80)W-90. Because that slightly thinner gear oil is only intended to “ever so slightly” possibly help improve fuel economy.
To further expound upon the shaking I experienced, I think the rate at which the wheels compressed the snow and launched the truck forward matched the natural frequency of the leaf springs, coupled with the fact that the shock absorbers are wearing out ( the truck is more bouncy at the back end with an empty bed than usual ) made the perfect storm so to speak thus resulting in the truck shaking like an earthquake. I never investigated the issue and assumed right of the bat it would be the anti slip differential so lesson learned.
Integrated wheel ends ( IWE’s) F150’s had this feature since 2004 so there are millions of them on the road. When the rubber diaphram at the hub fails it results in partial engagement thus resulting in grinding noises ( and actual grinding too ). To remedy this the one vacuum line leading to the front wheels has to be removed ( and covered so no debris gets into the system ) and it will let the IWE reconnect to the wheel hub fully so there won’t be anymore grinding until it gets fixed. The CV axles in the front will now be engaged to the wheels full time. The vacuum line is attached to a solenoid so the solenoid’s vacuum port has to be capped where the line was removed otherwise there will be a vacuum leak and will lead to excess fuel consumption.
Dean
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Hi again Dean,
Thanks for sharing. Keep me posted on how all this works out.
I have been following your blog for many years and would like to thank you for all the hard work you have done for us gear heads.
Reading your results with Mobil-1 Multi Vehicle Full Synthetic ATF, and the fact my vehicle was due for fresh fluid, I changed out the Toyota WS fluid in my 2004 Land Cruiser w/A750F transmission to Mobil-1.
I performed a total of 6 drain and fills driving roughly 50 miles between each drain. I try to keep the fluid change intervals between 20K and 30K as I do tow. It has been several hundred miles now, and the transmission operates flawlessly. Also, I have not been able to measure any change in fuel consumption.
The factory maintenance manuals warn about using any fluid other than Toyota WS as it will be detrimental to shift quality, especially in cold weather. Several days driving in temperatures that were in the teens proved that there was no noticeable difference in how the transmission shifted.
Granted, a 2004 A750F is not high tech by todays standards, but I am going to stay with the Mobil-1 fluid until your testing provides us with a better ATF.
Thanks again for all of your time and effort creating and maintaining this blog!
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Hi Ed,
You are welcome. I’m glad to read that you value the Engineering information I share here in my Blog, enough to be a follower for many years.
And thank you very much for the excellent evaluation/feedback on your experience with Mobil-1 Multi Vehicle Full Synthetic ATF, which is BY FAR the top ranked, best performing ATF in my Engineering Tests. This is the ATF I plan to use myself, the next time I need to change ATF.
Do not have any concern about ignoring the Toyota factory maintenance manual’s warning about using any fluid other than Toyota WS. Because I have never known Toyota’s recommendations to ever be honest/correct. It has always been best to ignore anything Toyota says.
My car is a 2017 LAND CRUISER 4.0 and reading your results with Mobil-1 Multi Vehicle Full Synthetic ATF, and I changed out the Toyota WS fluid in my Land Cruiser transmission to Mobil-1. It works fine.
I using Mobil 1 Syn Gear Lube LS 75W-90, we were finding large amounts of steel powder build-up on their differential’s magnetic drain plugs.
Valvoline Gear oil is not available in our country, but Ravenol, Shell and Amsoil are available.
Is it possible to use Amsoil 75w140 as a direct replacement for the less effective Mobil 1 LS 75w90? For example LAND CRUISER and BMW 5 2.0t.
My friends recommend Ravenol 75w90 and Redline 75w90, but I don’t want to try and make mistakes just want to know your opinion.
Thank you for your help in advance,
XIE
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Hi there,
Obviously Mobil 1 Syn Gear Lube LS 75W-90 is a very poor performer, if you are finding large amounts of steel powder build-up on differential magnetic drain plugs. So, it should not be used.
I do not have any test data on Ravenol 75w90 or Redline 75w90. So, I cannot say if they are good or bad.
Gear oils and motor oils use a different scale for their viscosity ratings, which means their viscosity values cannot be directly compared.
Here is how gear oil viscosity compares to motor oil viscosity:
75W90 gear oil has about the same viscosity as 10W40 motor oil.
75W140 gear oil has about the same viscosity as 20W50 motor oil.
That means the actual viscosity difference between 75W90 and 75W140 is not as large as 90 and 140 would suggest.
Therefore, you can use Amsoil 75W140 Severe Gear Oil as a direct replacement for the Mobil 1, 75W90, if you desire excellent wear protection.
The 75W140 will be a little thicker than 75W90, but it is very unlikely you will even notice the difference when driving.
Thank you for posting my comment about Prolong and giving feedback. I was really eager to find out what your professional-take on my experience would be. After reading your reply, it started sinking in that yes, I dodged a bullet there…
I so wish that I could use Quaker State Full Synthetic, but I am in contact with a representative of Ravenol South Africa, and there is a possibility that they will be able to supply me with the No. 5 oil on your list: Ravenol 0W30 VSW USVO. If I can secure a supply of that oil I know my engine-lubrication needs will be taken care of and I won’t have to rely on dodgy alchemy and the backyard oil-mixing practices that I have been engaging in, hehehe.
Thank you again for taking the time to reply to my, and all the rest of your readers’ questions and comments. I know we can rely on your advice because it’s based on science and measurable facts, not opinion or emotion.
Hi Rat.
Some fuss occured Yesterday when I uploaded a post. Did you get it? It’s gone…? Thx.!
Carsten.
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Hi Carsten,
I did not see a message from you come through yesterday. I will check my Spam Folder as soon as I get a chance, and see if it is in there.
Thanks for letting me know.
540 RAT
******* Follow-up is immediately below *******
I did find your message in my Spam Folder. I accepted it, and it is automatically placed where it would have come in yesterday, based on the date and clock time.
I responded to your question there. Just scroll back several messages until you find it.
I was having a discussion about motor oils with a colleague, and he stated that all synthetic oil was inherently superior than conventional oil due to better additive composition and anti-sludge characteristics.
I follow your page and frequently consult it when I need good advice for oils. I replied to him that the only properties that matter for a normal vehicle is the film strength of the oil and the onset of thermal breakdown – and of course the weight.
I was curious what you have to say on the matter. Thanks for the great content and advice.
Cheers,
Cameron
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Hi Cameron,
I’m glad to read that you find my Blog’s Engineering Information worthy of following it and using it for reference.
You and your Colleague both made some good points.
Here are some of the primary reasons why “synthetic” motor oils are typically superior to conventional motor oils:
– Better cold flow even for the same viscosity rating.
– Viscosity Improvers/Modifiers are typically NOT needed. So, with no Viscosity Improvers/Modifiers to degrade, it can maintain its viscosity rating longer.
– It can typically withstand higher temperatures before the onset of thermal breakdown.
– It typically forms less deposits.
– It has better natural cleaning properties.
But, a motor oil’s wear protection capability (film strength) is NOT determined by the base oil as is often claimed. It is determined by the factory’s additive package, which includes the extreme pressure, anti-wear components.
Therefore, some of the better “conventional” motor oils actually provide more wear protection than some synthetic oils. Because some synthetic oils do NOT perform well.
Some reasons why “conventional” oils may be preferred over synthetic oils:
– Lower price.
– Less oil consumption and/or leakage.
– Won’t bleed out of hydraulic lifters in engines that are sitting for a long time, which prevents lifter clicking when they are finally started up again.
NOTE: Synthetic motor oils do NOT allow for longer oil change intervals. Because proper, reasonable oil change intervals are determined by contaminated and diluted oil. Not by the base oil, not by the oil being worn out, and not by the additive package being depleted. See my Tech Article #25 on “Recommended Oil Change Intervals” for all the details.
I’ve done a lot of research online regarding oils for my dirt track car and have come across pieces of your blog on many different forums and finally found the actual forum.
I’ve done reading in a lot of different areas within the blog, but the one that interests me the most is the rankings (of course). I found that the oil I am using, Torco TR1 ranks wayyyy down on the list and I’m quite concerned since this is a 6800 RPM 450HP Chevy 350 with hydraulic flat tappet cam. It takes a lot of abuse and has even survived a rear diff failure which resulted in the motor turning 8100 when it failed coming off the corner at WOT.
My engine builder strays away from anything that is synthetic in these engines for the concerns that you’ve listed in your blog. I am thinking of making the switch to the Lucas Oil racing oil, but already have some Torco oil remaining to go through.
I am curious though if Torco has made their oils better based on this blog since your tests of it are now 10 years old. I would like to see you revisit some of these tests that have older test dates since the blending could have changed, especially the Torco TR1 20w-50, Valvoline VR1 20w-50, and the Maxima conventional racing oil in the same weight since that is what my engine builder sells.
I’ve seen your recommendations on the 5w-30 with high volume pump, but that isn’t an option right now. I will definitely be showing this blog to my engine builder. I’m not sure if I have a high volume pump, but I know 20w-50 is necessary at this time for pressures on a season and a half old engine.
I mentioned above about the rear diff failure… we run direct drive transmissions and control our speed with the rear gear, which is a 9” Ford. I’m curious what your thoughts on best oil for that is as well. I see you mainly discuss engine oils. Gear failures are expensive and race-costing.
I saw where you reviewed a few GL5, but Currie recommends a GL6 oil. Sadly, there are very few options of GL6 oils these days. I am actually running Torcos GL6 as well I’m a 85w-140 which is recommended by Currie for racing applications.
I’m curious if the more available GL5 gear oils you’ve tested are just as good or worse/better. From my research, the 9” Ford rear ends have a higher pinion offset which is harder on oils. We are also running very high gear ratios in these cars, 6.00 and 6.33 so that adds to the heat and stress on the oil.
I would like to see your test on some different conventional gear oils like the Torco RGO 85w-140, Currie’s racing gear oil 85w-140, and some parts store/Walmart available 85w-140 conventionals. Currie and most other manufacturers recommend straying away from synthetic in these 9” rear ends.
Thanks for all the research you’ve done and will continue to do. I look forward to keeping up with this in the future and sharing it with everyone I think would benefit.
Thanks,
Zeke
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Hi Zeke,
Welcome to my Blog. It’s good to know that you are now among my thousands, and thousands, and thousands of readers from all over the world.
And thanks for planning to share my Blog with others. That’s great because it is important that car guys are aware of my Blog, which is THE ONLY source for FACTUAL Engineering Test Data, that EXACTLY MATCHES real world experience.
My Blog is now closely approaching 1 MILLION VIEWS, which is quite an accomplishment for a “Text Only” Blog. On-Line videos are the sites that typically rack up a massive number of views. Because most people have too short an attention span to read a lot of text.
I do NOT have any concerns about using synthetic motor oil, or synthetic gear oil. Perhaps you misunderstood something you read here.
I run Synthetic motor oil in ALL of my own vehicles, from stock to High Performance, including an old-school, traditional flat tappet small block Chevy.
Your engine builder sounds like an old-school guy, who has a misguided opinion about synthetic motor oil. Perhaps after reading this response and more of the body of my Blog, he will see the light so to speak, about all the benefits of “thinner synthetic” motor oil vs “thicker conventional” motor oil.
If you had a high volume oil pump like all traditional American V-8’s should, and if your engine clearances are NOT larger than really necessary, 5W30 Quaker State Full Synthetic, API SP motor oil, with its friction reducers and less viscous drag, would make your Race Car measurably FASTER than it is now while using overly thick conventional 20W50. 5W30 Quaker State Full Synthetic, API SP motor oil is being used by flat tappet Drag Racers with GREAT success.
Overly thick motor oil, especially conventional oil, such as 20W50 is a terrible choice for any engine, and is an especially bad choice for Race Engines, because:
– Overly thick oil causes more viscous drag, reducing performance/acceleration, and reducing fuel economy.
– Overly thick oil viscosity flows slower through an engine, reducing lubrication, reducing cooling capability, and drives up oil temperature.
– Overly thick oil causes more air bubbles/foaming in the oil, which compromises a motor oil’s engine protection. An engine needs “liquid” oil, NOT “air filled foamy” oil.
Synthetic motor oil is THE BEST choice for “Most” engines, and ESPECIALLY for Race Engines. Though like anything else, there are a couple of exceptions.
Here are some of the primary reasons why “synthetic” motor oils are typically SUPERIOR to conventional motor oils:
– Better cold flow even for the same viscosity rating.
– Viscosity Improvers/Modifiers are typically NOT needed. So, with no Viscosity Improvers/Modifiers to degrade, it can maintain its viscosity rating longer.
– It can typically withstand higher temperatures before the onset of thermal breakdown, which is particularly important for Race Engines.
– It typically forms less deposits.
– It has better natural cleaning properties.
But, a motor oil’s wear protection capability is NOT determined by the base oil as is often claimed. And it is NOT determined by viscosity. In other words, thicker motor oil does NOT provide better wear protection. Your engine builder needs to understand this.
A motor oil’s wear protection capability is determined ONLY by the factory’s additive package, which includes the extreme pressure, anti-wear components.
Therefore, some of the better “conventional” motor oils can actually provide better wear protection than some synthetic oils. Because some synthetic oils do NOT perform well. It just depends on the oil in question.
Some reasons why “conventional” oils may be preferred over synthetic oils:
– Lower price.
– Less oil consumption and/or leakage.
– Won’t bleed out of hydraulic lifters in engines that are sitting for a long time, which prevents lifter clicking when they are finally started up again.
NOTE: Synthetic motor oils do NOT allow for longer oil change intervals. Because proper, reasonable oil change intervals are determined by contaminated and diluted oil. Not by the base oil, not by the oil being worn out, and not by the additive package being depleted. See my Tech Article #25 on “Recommended Oil Change Intervals” for all the details. But, of course that is primarily for street vehicles, rather than race engines that get an oil change as part of on-going maintenance.
You have been playing Russian Roulette with your engine by using EXTREMELY poor performing Torco TR1 motor oil, which is one of the WORST performing motor oils on the market.
You could not have selected an oil that was much worse. Your situation is like an old guy who has chain smoked for 50 years, but still has not died from lung cancer. Nothing is absolute. But, you need to switch to a better oil ASAP.
You do NOT need a so-called Racing Oil, because most Racing Oils are poor performers. You need a High psi, Highly Ranked motor oil from my Wear Protection Ranking List.
If you must use an XW50 motor oil, I recommend that you use the EXCELLENT, yes synthetic, 10W50 Amsoil Dirt Motorcycle Oil. It was the NUMBER 1 ranked thick oil in my Tech Article #69 on Thick Oil for air-cooled engines. And it also has impressive thermal breakdown resistance, which would serve your Race Engine very well.
Performing my Engineering Torture Test on motor oil, requires a huge effort, takes a huge amount of time, and consumes a lot of money. So, I have to be selective on which oils I test.
And my Engineering Blog is all about what is BEST for our needs. So, I typically try to test oils that would have the most interest and the most value, to the most people. Therefore, I have NO plans for any future testing of conventional motor oils.
As for differential gear oil, I do have Engineering Test Data on which gear oil is THE BEST GEAR OIL you should be using.
But first, keep in mind that equipment manufacturers, such as cam Companies, and differential Companies, are utterly unqualified to say what oil you should be using. They have NO IDEA what they are talking about. So, ignore anything they say about lubricating oils.
THE BEST GEAR OIL you should be using, is Amsoil 75W-140 Severe Gear, Extreme Pressure Synthetic Gear Lube. It is BY FAR, the NUMBER 1 ranked gear oil in my Tech Article #55 on Gear Oil/Transmission Oil.
My final overall recommendation, is that you and your engine builder should get off of the outdated and obsolete, last Century, “conventional” lube mindset.
Because you could greatly benefit from the 21st Century “synthetic” lube formulations that are vastly SUPERIOR to the older “conventional” lubes.
540 RAT - Tech Facts, NOT Myths 
Good afternoon, 540 RAT,
On a 2008 Mercedes-Benz E550, the owner’s manual calls for 85W-90 hypoid gear oil to be used in the rear differential on a car. However, there are very few suppliers of 85W-90 hypoid gear oil, one of them LiquiMoly and another one is buying OEM fluids from the dealership.
I don’t want to run LiquiMoly gear oil for reasons that you’ve shared with us. And, it is likely that LiquiMoly supplies Mercedes-Benz with the same gear oil used in OEM packaging (though I haven’t checked).
Do you think it would be okay to use Valvoline 80W-90 High Performance Hypoid gear oil, ranked #5 on your gear oil/transmission oil testing list, inside that rear differential?
Thank you for your help in advance,
Sam
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Hi Sam,
Valvoline 80W-90 High Performance, “conventional” GL-5 hypoid extreme pressure gear oil would be a good choice for conventional differentials. But, it is “NOT” for limited slip differentials.
Valvoline 75W-90 Full “Synthetic”, GL-5 hypoid extreme pressure gear oil is a good choice for conventional “OR” limited slip differentials.
So, choose between either one of these as needed for your vehicle, and you will good to go.
Take care,
540 RAT
Hello Mr. Rat,
Public service announcement with regards to hybrid and plug in hybrid. The extra money you pay up front may be offset by gas savings ( only if the majority of driving is “city” ) but then all those break even savings are lost when you have to fix/replace the battery and other associated repairs due to its complexity.
Dean
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Hi Dean,
Yes, you are correct.
Take care,
540 RAT
Morning 540 Rat-
Subaru “Hybrid” motor guy again. 8)
Was wondering (after f3’ing my brains out) if you have plans to ever test Amsoil Signature Series 0W-40 Synthetic Motor Oil?
Thanks for reading and have a good day
~Paul
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Hi again Paul,
No, because a multi-viscosity 40wt motor oil is THICKER than ideal for most water-cooled, gasoline engine applications.
And a multi-viscosity 20wt motor oil is THINNER than ideal for most most water-cooled, gasoline engine applications.
But, a multi-viscosity 30wt motor oil is THE IDEAL viscosity for most most water-cooled, gasoline engine applications.
Since it is just not possible to test every last motor oil on the market, I focus mostly on multi-viscosity 30wt motor oils, that have the highest value, for the most people.
However, the Amsoil Signature Series line of oil, is very good. So, for your particular application, you could run 0W40 Amsoil Signature Series with no concern at all, even if I have not tested it.
If I owned your particular High Horsepower WRX STi, with its marginal bottom end design, I would use 0W40 Amsoil Signature Series, so that I could sleep better at night.
Your car is an exception where a multi-viscosity 30wt motor oil is NOT the best choice. You will kick yourself if you blow your engine up from running the wrong viscosity motor oil, when you have been made aware of the viscosity that is the BEST choice for you to be running.
People doing the right thing, don’t blow-up their engine. That’s why I recommended you use 0W40 Amsoil Signature Series. Because it is the BEST choice for your particular application, and will provide a higher “Margin of Safety”, as we call it in Engineering.
As I have said before, for most cases, here is how a motor oil should be chosen, in this exact order:
1. Select the correct viscosity.
2. Select a highly ranked, high psi oil from my Wear Protection Ranking List.
However, for any questions about special cases, get in touch with me here.
I make Engineering recommendations based on each specific application I am asked about. But of course, each reader ultimately has to decide for themselves, what they want to do with that recommendation.
Take care,
540 RAT
Hey 540 Rat-
Bad ass!! Love it here. Thanks for the advise. Wish I could buy yah beer (if you drink 🙂 )
Thanks much and talk soon. I’ll be lurking.
~Paul
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Lurkers are always welcome. 😊
540 RAT
Rat-
First off, thanks for this work you’ve committed yourself to for years now. I’ve been following it for about 4 years on and off.
So let me get to it: I own a VW.
The 5w30 QSFS isn’t euro rated for VW. I did find a QSFS 5w40 euro that rates pretty well on your testing but I wanted to ask how important is the Euro tag on the bottle?
Can I run the QSFS 5w30?
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Hi David,
Thanks for being one of my many Blog followers.
If your VW has a Diesel engine, then you should use a “Euro” motor oil.
If your VW has a gasoline engine, then 5W30 QSFS (Quaker State Full Synthetic), API SP, would be the BEST choice.
Take care,
540 RAT
Hey 540Rat-
Subaru “Hybrid” guy, again.
So as cheesy as it might sound and based on what I can hear, see, as well as my butt dyno / ass sensor inputs are telling me, the Amsoil 0W40 signature series seems to be a great match for my build/motor. It actually smoothed out the idle a small amount, enough to notice! Power feels more linear and pushes sooner in the lower RPM range.
I also went and put in Amsoil 75W90 severe gear oil and even that made a difference in the sense that the drive train noise quieted down and smoothed out as well, including a smoother shift through the gears!!
Crazy! Well thought I’d share….back to lurk mode
Thanks for reading.
-Paul
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Hi again Paul,
Hopefully, you will be lurking again soon to read my response here.
Two things, one GOOD, and one BAD:
1. GOOD – I’m glad to see that you are very happy with the 0W40 Amsoil Signature Series oil that I recommended specifically for your build/motor.
2. BAD – You obviously have not read my Tech Article #55 on Gear Oil Tests.
If you had, you would know that 75W90 Amsoil Severe Gear Oil was THE WORST performing gear oil I tested. It is ranked 11th out of the 11 Gear Oils I tested. It is one of Amsoil’s WORST performing products.
My strong recommendation is for this gear oil to NEVER be used. One of my other Blog readers reported that he and his buddies were getting a lot of metal particles on their differential magnetic drain plugs when using this gear oil. When they changed to a better gear oil from my Gear Oil Test, the metal particles disappeared.
NOTE: The HIGHER the psi value, the BETTER the Wear Protection. Here are the comparison numbers:
75W90 Amsoil Severe Gear Oil = ONLY 78,481 psi
75W-90 Valvoline Full Synthetic Gear Oil = 121,502 psi
So as you can see, the 75W-90 Valvoline Full Synthetic Gear Oil provides a WHOPPING 55% MORE WEAR PROTECTION than that pathetic 75W90 Amsoil Severe Gear Oil.
So you should replace that Amsoil gear oil ASAP.
Take care,
540 RAT
Hey 540Rat-
I did see that section, but I had impulse ordered that and was about to return it for the 75W110 version but decided to run this for a short period as like a flush to get the Motul out.
I’ll give the Valvoline a look!
Thanks as always!
~Paul
Hi 540 RAT,
I saw some good News today. Now GM says they are not abandoning their gas V-8 engines after all, to switch to all electric vehicles only. That really surprised me because GM’s CEO has prided herself in being a radical climate fanatic. I guess she finally got a clue that GM would collapse if they only offer electric vehicles. Your thoughts?
Zenyatta
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Hi again,
Yes, I saw that in the News also. And that did come as a total surprise. Because GM’s utterly worthless and completely incompetent CEO Mary Barra, has for a long time been saying “matter of factly” that GM was converting to an All-EV Company by 2030 or 2035, depending on which News article you read. And absolutely no exceptions were ever mentioned.
Now today, she back-pedaled and GM announced that they are NOT going to abandon their gas engines. They said they will still offer gas V-8’s in their full-size pick-ups, SUV’s, and larger trucks. And they said they are investing nearly a $billion dollars in 4 new factories to produce those engines.
Making such an abrupt reversal in their future plans, would make you think that much smarter people than her at GM, could see they were heading toward the cliff of extinction, perhaps from Market Research.
Because it is quite clear that Americans simply do NOT want EV’s which are THE WORST vehicles ever created. They are miserable to live with, and many EV buyers are suffering massive buyer’s remorse.
Especially as more and more buyers discover that in freezing weather, EV’s are simply unworkable because of 50% reductions in driving range and EXTREME DIFFICULTIES in recharging. One owner of a new very expensive Hummer EV, found out that the largest home charger you can buy, took 5 DAYS, yes 5 DAYS to fully recharge his Hummer. He had major buyer’s remorse.
So, you have to wonder if GM’s Board of Directors told CEO Mary Barra to make some serious changes if she wanted to keep her job.
Whatever the case, that is a major move in the right direction for GM. And with Ford already planning separate Gas and Electric Divisions, now it will be interesting to see if Chrysler revises their All-Electric plans, now that they are the only major American Automaker claiming to be switching to all EV’s. TBD…
Take care,
540 RAT
Good Morning.
Very Interesting Blog. I appreciate the view. Interesting on the PSI and not so much on the traditional ZDDP and or truck oil.
I have seen this blog many times. I have read through it.
I have had failures in the past, and I have had good results. I dont want to name oils here.
so…to my questions…or I am soliciting a recommendation from you…
I am running a 427 cubic inch Ford windsor engine(stroked 351) with a dart block and eagle steel crank-rods. I run a solid roller cam with pressure fed solid roller lifters. Makes an Honest 680hp on the dyno. 12 to 1 compression. I run high octane gas–110
To date, I have run rotella 15/40w dino and mobil 1 15/50 synthetic. No reliability issues to date, low use, under 20 hrs. Maybe 10-20 runs at the drag strip. To date, the rotella was faster than the mobil 1 15/50….
I want a lighter oil. I want a reliable oil. I see your list.
I have been told the Mobil1 0w40 is a good hearty oil..its a Heavy 30wt not really a full 40wt), I see it on your list. I also see the mobil 1 racing 5w30 on your list…(shocked at your rating -psi).
Would you care to recommend an oil?
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Hi Harry,
As you are probably aware, roller motors are not finicky about what oil they use, like flat tappet motors are. So, roller motors can use many different oils without any major issue.
But, the fact that you are here asking for a recommendation, indicates you would like to run an excellent motor oil that will provide the best wear protection for your engine.
You came to the right place for CORRECT/FACTUAL Engineering information that is backed-up by hard Engineering Test Data. I am the ONLY one anywhere, who backs-up everything I post with hard data, proving everything I say.
You will only find reliable and accurate information right here in my Engineering Blog. I started my Blog 10 years ago so that Car Guys would FINALLY have some place to go for TRUE information.
And I have numerous Blog reader testimonials in the body of my Blog, PROVING that my Engineering Test Data EXACTLY MATCHES real world experience.
The notions that High Performance engines need High ZDDP and/or Heavy Duty Diesel oils, are pure nonsense. They are only MYTHS that were just “made-up” by unqualified and incompetent people. And now they are perpetuated on Automotive Forums and elsewhere, by people who have no idea what they are talking about. But of course, repeating BAD/WRONG information a million times, does NOT make it magically become true.
Anything you read or are told about motor oil that is not backed-up by hard Engineering Test Data, is only opinion, theory, speculation, or guessing.
The fact is, Engineering Test Data has PROVEN over and over again, that Heavy Duty Diesel oils produce low psi numbers, and they reach the onset of thermal breakdown sooner than the better, far superior gas engine oils.
Also, experience and Engineering Test Data, have shown time and time again, that High ZDDP motor oils, including Break-In oils, typically produce very low psi numbers, and actually are very likely to CAUSE wear, damage and failure. That’s why flat tappet engines keep wiping lobes when they use High ZDDP oils.
ZDDP is just an old, outdated, obsolete anti-wear component from the last century. It has been FAR SURPASSED by modern, proprietary, 21st century anti-wear formulations. That’s why many new API SP motor oils are SO MUCH BETTER than old style high ZDDP oils. Hotrodders and Racers need to get with the program and switch to the newer oils, if they want the best protection for their engines.
When it comes to the TRUTH about motor oil wear protection capability, the ONLY thing that matters, is the psi value an oil can produce in my Engineering Torture Test on motor oil. The HIGHER the psi value, the BETTER the wear protection capability.
*****
You did not say what sort of engine clearances you are running, nor if you are running a standard volume oil pump, or a high volume oil pump. Both of those have a great impact on the “HOT” oil pressure your engine is capable of generating.
The old rule of thumb for High Performance and Racing engines, is that they should produce “at least” 10 psi of “HOT” oil pressure at normal operating temperature, for every 1,000 rpm. For example, you want to see “at least” 40 psi of “HOT” oil pressure at 4,000 rpm, etc, etc.
My number 1, All-Time BEST, Record Setting psi motor oil, which produces THE BEST Wear Protection Capability ever recorded, is modern 5W30 Quaker State Full Synthetic (QSFS), API SP. And you can even get great prices on it at Walmart.
I use 5W30 QSFS in ALL of my own engines, including old school flat tappet, modern stock and High Performance, big cubic inch, and Supercharged.
I have numerous Drag Racer readers who use that 5W30 QSFS oil in their old school flat tappet race engines, with GREAT success.
So, “IF” your engine can generate acceptable “HOT” oil pressure with a 5W30 motor oil, that oil is your answer for a lighter, reliable oil.
With all other things being equal, the thinner/lighter the motor oil, the quicker your car will be at the Drag Strip, because of less viscous drag, which frees more HP to move the car.
However, if your engine requires a thicker oil to maintain acceptable “ HOT” oil pressure, then I recommend using 0W40 Amsoil Signature Series motor oil.
Take care,
540 RAT
Morning 540Rat-
Just to clarify, I found 2 types of packaging for the Valvoline gear oil. So wanted to ask which is the one you tested? Please and thanks.
1. Valvoline FlexFill Full Synthetic 75W-90
2. Valvoline SynPower 75W-90
Thanks much and talk soon
~Paul
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Hi again Paul,
I tested Valvoline FlexFill Full Synthetic 75W-90. That is the one you want. Just so you know, “FlexFill” is only a reference to the container the gear oil comes in, which often makes it more convenient to put in the vehicle. But, the gear oil itself is called “Valvoline Full Synthetic 75W-90”.
Valvoline SynPower 75W-90 is an older gear oil Valvoline no longer produces, and is no longer shown on their website. Though there is likely a lot of it still in warehouses.
And they have dropped the “SynPower” name, which is no longer on their current products.
Take care,
540 RAT
540Rat-
Roger that!!!
Thanks as always
~Paul
Hello 540Rat.
I looked at Mobil 1’s website and at their product data sheet and saw that their 15w50 is now API SP rated as well the FS 0w40and FS 5w40 . I talked to a rep at Mobil 1 to confirm and he said “this is correct.” I was wondering if you would be testing any of those for air-cooled equipment? Thanks again! – Joe
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Hi Joe,
Here we go again. That Mobil 1, 15W50 was the source of some uncomfortable discussions here a few months ago, regarding whether or not it was really API SP.
At that time, I could not find anywhere on their website showing that it was really API SP. And I could not find an API SP version in person either.
But, one of my readers insisted it was API SP. He even sent a picture of it showing API SP. So, the whole thing was a total mess. And I said I would not touch that Frankenstein oil with a 10 foot pole.
Now, I just looked at TWO different Mobil 1 links, and AGAIN, including their product data sheet, neither one showed it as API SP. Apparently Mobil 1 is incompetent. They can’t even get their website right.
I don’t know what you are looking at on-line that shows it as API SP. But, if it is that hard to find, I would not trust it.
If I ever come across Mobil 1, 15W50 in person that has API SP on the bottle, I “might” get one to test.
But, I’m not as much of a fan of Mobil 1 oils, as some of my readers are. Because their performance is very inconsistent on psi value, and their performance at higher temperatures can be rather poor as well.
I never use Mobil 1 oils myself, and I never recommend their oils either. So, I would have to decide if testing a newer version of their 15W50 is worth my time, effort, and money.
Plus, I lost all respect for the Mobil 1 Brand when they came out with their extremely poor performing 5W30 Annual Protection oil, which is ranked a pathetic 178th out of 286 motor oils tested so far. That oil is a TOTAL scam from a dishonest Company, that is only intended to separate gullible people from their money.
And their prior/current Mobil 1, 15W50 is horrible, with a value of only 70,235 psi, which ranks it a miserable 237th out of 286 oils tested so far. So, I wouldn’t hold my breath for a newer version to be WAY better.
There are plenty of other oils, and some are quite good, to choose from in my Tech Article on Air-Cooled Engine Oils. So, no one “needs” another Mobil 1 oil.
XW40 oils are NOT thick enough to be acceptable choices for air-cooled engines.
Only XW50 and XW60 oils are truly suitable for air-cooled engines.
You can NEVER trust anything a Company Rep ever says. They are every bit as bad as a Used Car Salesmen.
Take care,
540 RAT
Hello Mr. Rat,
I was Canadian Tire today looking for deals on oil and the only one on sale was the Mobil 1 annual protection. I initially thought it should be at least as good as their other stuff because its Mobil synthetic – and then the rational part of my brain kicked in and said don’t buy it unless I see some psi numbers! Glad I happened upon this QandA.
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Hi Dean,
The is “no guarantee” that a Mobil 1 Synthetic motor oil will automatically be a good oil. There are a good number of Mobil 1 Synthetic motor oils that are poor performers that are not worth using.
For some reason, people tend to think all Mobil 1 oils are great. But, that is simply NOT true. All anyone has to do is read through my whole Wear Protection Ranking List.
Then they can see for themselves, that some Mobil 1 oils perform well, and some Mobil 1 oils perform poorly. But, you cannot know which is which until you look through my Ranking List.
Mobil 1 Annual Protection was “On Sale” for one reason. It is because that overly expensive, poor performing oil, was discontinued after one year because of poor sales.
So now, places that have it in stock, are still trying to dump their old stock of it by putting it “On Sale” just to get rid of it.
You did the right thing by avoiding it. Because it is not worth using even if it was free. A massive 177 other motor oils on my Ranking List perform BETTER than that oil.
Take care,
540 RAT
Hello again 540Rat,
Motul 75w90 is out of stock just about everywhere. Those that do have it in stock want ridiculous $$$ per quart.
Is there an alternative gear oil you would recommend since the Motul is unobtanium?
Thanks again for all your hard work!
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Hi again,
I’m not sure why you would think that Motul Gear Oil is “The Gear Oil” to use. Because there is “nothing” special about Motul. It is NOT the Best performing Brand. Motul is just another “ordinary” Brand.
But, I suspect Automotive Forum people say Motul is the greatest Brand out there. However, Automotive Forums only throw out Bad/Wrong information. Because the unqualified people there have no idea what they are talking about. Automotive Forums are THE WORST places to ever go for information.
I started my Engineering Blog 10 years ago, so that Car Guys would FINALLY have a place to go for the “Truth”.
Not only do I have an alternative to Motul Gear Oil for you, I have a “Significantly Superior” Gear Oil for you.
In my Engineering Torture Test on Lubricating Oils, these two Gear Oils produced:
Motul 75W90 Gear 300 Fluid = 103,868 psi
Valvoline 75W-90 Full Synthetic Gear Oil = 121,502 psi, which provides 17% BETTER WEAR PROTECTION than the Motul 75W90.
NOTE: The HIGHER the psi value, the BETTER the Wear Protection Capability.
So, if you use Valvoline 75W-90 Full Synthetic Gear Oil, you will be MUCH BETTER OFF, than if you used the Motul you originally had in mind.
Take care,
540 RAT
Hey Rat,
Thought you’d be interested in my oil report on the Coyote with the first fill of QSFS 5w30 – by comparison, *significantly* less iron and less overall other wear metals than the previous test which ran Pennzoil Platinum 5w30. That was also during harder working conditions for the engine (cold, short runs etc.)
Once again, the regional(?) Costco Kirkland Signature 5w30 oil is on sale (among their other offerings, including a diesel oil) and i was reminded that other, lesser testing than you perform, showed it to be a pretty reasonable oil, especially for the price, then remembered you didn’t have a test of it 😀
The recent gear oil discussions reminded me that i needed to order some more Valvoline 75w90 for the front diff as it’s due a change, i do like the Flexfill containers, they were really convenient on the Amsoil 75w140.
Take care
Maxx,
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Hi again Maxx,
No, I have not tested Costco/Kirkland labeled 5W30 motor oil because their Management refused to sell me single quart to test. And I was not about to buy a case of low priced, low quality motor oil, just to test one quart, then dump the whole rest of the case. So, I will never test that oil.
Do NOT be gullible enough to believe that any “lesser” testing on motor oil has any value at all.
I spent a LOT of time, a LOT of effort, and a LOT of money, drawing from my years as a Professional Mechanical Engineer and Car Guy, to develop my proprietary Engineering Test Protocol on motor oil, that EXACTLY matches real world experience.
NO ONE ELSE ANYWHERE, has access to my Engineering Test Protocol. Because it is my own Intellectual Property that will never be shared. So, my Engineering Test Data is the ONLY Test Data that is accurate and reliable.
Thanks for sharing the info on your 5W30 QSFS (Quaker State Full Synthetic, for those not familiar with the abbreviation) used oil Lab Test report.
That is yet another validation of the accuracy of my Engineering Torture Test on motor oil, which shows 5W30 QSFS to provide THE BEST wear protection on the market today.
It is ranked “NUMBER 1”, producing an amazing 152,674 psi, which is the HIGHEST/BEST value ever recorded for wear protection capability, out of a whopping 286 motor oils tested so far.
EVERY Race, traditional flat tappet, Supercharged, Turbocharged, European, and Motorcycle, water-cooled, gas engine that can use 5W30, is BEST served and BEST protected by using 5W30 Quaker State Full Synthetic, API SP. And the icing on the cake, is that you can even get great prices on it at Walmart.
5W30 Quaker State Full Synthetic, API SP, is SO GOOD, that it is CLEARLY THE BEST CHOICE for anyone who lives where this oil is available. ANYONE, and I mean ANYONE, who can use 5W30, and has this motor oil available to them, but chooses to use some other oil, has made the WRONG decision.
Since you have to buy motor oil anyway, it is obvious that it makes the most sense to buy the BEST oil while you are at it.
And for the record, I have NO CONNECTION at all to Quaker State. So, what oil anyone chooses to use, does not affect me one way or the other. I am simply sharing the results of my UNBIASED, and 100% HONEST, Engineering Test Data.
Take care,
540 RAT
Hey 540 Rat-
Paul, the Subaru “hybrid” guy again.
So I went and bought a bunch of the Valvoline 75w90 synthetic gear oil.
Going to be honest I’m a little on the fence, granted It’s cold out right now here in North Texas, in the 40s but compared to the motul and the amsoil this Valvoline and my clutch type LSDs don’t like each other.
If I have to put a friction modifier in I suppose I could do that. But I’m trying to stay away from having to buy all these multiple things and creating a witch’s brew. I don’t know. I might look into the amsoil of 75w110.
Either way, thought I’d share. See if you had any opinion. As always, thanks for reading and appreciate your tutelage.
Thanks and talk soon
Paul~
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Hi again Paul,
Valvoline 75W90 Full Synthetic Gear Oil is “FORMULATED FOR and RECOMMENDED FOR” Limited Slip Differentials (LSD). That’s why I recommended it. Do NOT add anything to it.
40+*F weather is not that extreme. That gear oil has been used in countless Limited Slip Differentials. And I have NEVER heard of any complaints before. So, it is odd that you would have an issue.
Saying “they don’t like each other” is not exactly a technical description. Could you be more technically specific about exactly what you are experiencing, and under what conditions, that you did not experience with Motul or Amsoil?
Your concern isn’t just a “feeling” is it?
Take care
540 RAT
Hey 540 Rat-
Sorry about that.
The LSD’s in the front and rear now clatter / chatter pretty strong during slow turning with the Valvoline 75w-40 Synthetic Gear Oil. When before they did not, while using Motul Competition and the Amsoil Gear oils. The LSDs would tighten up during turning and you would here the inner tires (of the turn) skip on the pavement but would not chatter or clatter. If that makes sense?
Thank
~Paul
…Sorry amendment , “…..skip on the pavement but the LSDs* would not chatter or clatter. If that makes sense?”
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It sounds like your particular clutch packs with their particular friction material, are exactly at the grip/slip transition point, to allow turning without tires skidding/wearing on the pavement (which is the whole point of having a clutch pack vs a locked differential) with that Valvoline Gear Oil, at the temperatures they are seeing now.
Does that noise problem go away once the differentials and gear oil are fully warmed-up? If it does, then I would keep the Superior Valvoline Gear oil.
But, if the noise does not go away after being fully warmed-up, then you should not have to live with that noise.
If that is the case, then unfortunately, you will have to give up the Superior Wear Protection Capability and reduced tire wear with that Valvoline Gear Oil. And then you’ll have to go back to one of the other gear oils that will provide less differential wear protection, and cause tire skidding/wear in turns.
Take care,
540 RAT
Hey 540 Rat-
As always thanks for your advice and help, means a lot!
You would advise against or condone adding a friction modifier? I’m not opposed to that to try and keep the better protection. Based on your previous comment it seems you warrant against. Curious if it degrades? Ultimately I’m down $200 almost on gear changes so far and would like to use this oil for a bit if I can add a less expensive additive. 😐🤪
If not I’m good to go. 😎
Thanks much and talk soon.
~Paul
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Hi,
Our messages were tripping over each other again. So, go back an reread my response just before this one.
Valvoline says NOT to add anything to this Gear Oil.
540 RAT
To answer you question about the noise and temp. I noticed it intensifies when warmer.
~Paul
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OK, a few last questions.
1. Do you hear the noise during very slow turning such as when maneuvering in a parking lot?
2. Or do you hear the noise in faster turns such as when turning a street/road corner when you did not stop first, in other words, turning a corner while still rolling at a decent mph?
If you are not sure, go test both types of turning with your window open.
3. Are your differential clutch packs stock, or have the clutch friction plates been replaced with “aftermarket” friction plates?
Take care,
540 RAT
Morning 540 Rat-
Answers:
1. Yes.
2. Yes; If I throttle up it lessens.
3. No; They are Cusco Type RS LSDs. Which I have arranged the plates to provide 70% Lock, not a full 100% ( which has been working great on the street and track for years now )
(Time to make coffee (5:21am here 😉 ) I assume your blog time is not set?)
Thanks for your help on this!
~Paul
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Hi again Paul,
My Blog is of course on the Internet, so it is available 24/7/365. I don’t have to be here, except to respond to Q&A Messages, or to make updates to the body of the Blog.
OK, we have finally gotten to the “cause” of your issue – which is your AFTERMARKET differentials. That explains why I have never heard of an issue with this Valvoline Gear Oil before. Most other diffs don’t have an issue with it.
We could have saved several back and forth messages if you had mentioned the aftermarket diffs in your first message about this issue – always look at what has been changed from original, first.
That is the kind of thing you can run into with Street/Strip vehicles. They are not quite dedicated Race vehicles, and they are not normal Street vehicles either.
So, you are now between a rock and a hard place. You now have a hard decision to make. Here are your choices:
1. Leave everything “as is” to have the diffs the way you want them, AND to have excellent diff wear protection. You could throttle it up, ignore the noise, or simply turn the radio up. 😊
2. Add some limited slip diff fluid even though Valvoline says it is not needed. And see how it goes.
3. Revise your clutch pack set-up to more or less lock as desired to eliminate the issue. And keep the excellent diff wear protection.
4. Go back to stock diffs, and keep the excellent diff wear protection.
5. Change the gear oil back to what you had before, and accept LESS diff wear protection.
Your call…Let me know what you end up doing, that you are satisfied with.
Ah, the joys of living with Street/Strip cars.
Good Luck,
540 RAT
LOL. No I was referring to the time stamps on comments. e.g. 11:04pm when I posted around 5pm cst. 🙂
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We are tripping over each other’s messages again. Be sure to go back and read my now completed message before this one.
Yeah, my Blog’s time is a default setting that doesn’t mean anything. Texas is 2 hours ahead of me.
540 RAT
Hey 540 Rat-
Heheh, I was eavesdropping while you where compiling your response and noticed the part about the blog time. 🙂
I notice those things since I’ve ben designing and making sites for the past 18 years.
So I’m going to try #2 and see how it reacts. If it doesn’t improve i’ll switch to Amsoil 75w-110 mainly because when I had the Amsoil 75w-90 my drive train quieted up and smoothed out, noticeably. But hopefully with the 75w-110 I’ll get that same “smoothness” but better wear protection than the 75w-90.
(A Little history) I had been running Motul Competition Gear Oil 75w-140 for years and the times I’ve changed it the magnets on the tranny and rear diff only had SMALL amounts of VERY fine metal deposit [ Like powder ] (I assume LSD clutch plate material). Never any chunks or large build up. Yet I have noticed that with that gear oil the drive train always seemed to be more “vocal” then necessary. Hence going down this path of finding new oils for the ‘ol girl.
So far the Amsoil selection and experience has been great. Just need to find the best balance. (motor oil selection is locked in! 🙂
All I can say so far is I’m grateful for your time all around and many thanks!!!
I’ll keep you posted on my findings with the additive or if I switch.
Thanks as always and lurk mode activated.
~Paul
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😊
540 RAT
Hello Mr. Rat,
I bought some Valvoline synthetic 75w140 gear oil and the LSD friction modifier additive from Ford. The Valvoline description says its recommended for limited slip differentials. I was wondering if that means it can be used as is or if I still need to add LSD friction modifier additive.
Dean
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Hi Dean,
When Gear Oil says it is formulated for Limited Slip differentials, that means it ALREADY HAS the required additives for Limited Slip diffs. So, you use it “as is”. You do NOT have to add anything more to it.
Just leave Ford’s additive on the shelf unopened in case you might need it in the future.
Take care,
540 RAT
Hi 540 Rat-
Update:
Well went and put in some of this.
Amsoil Slip Lock Differential Additive.
And the clatter / chatter went away. 🙂
Wonder how much the “wear protection” is effected?
Anyways, thanks again
~Paul
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Hi again Paul,
Awesome! I’m glad to see that took care of your issue.
Hard to say what that does to the wear protection capability of the Valvoline 75W90 Full Synthetic Gear Oil.
All I can say is that I have plenty of data showing that aftermarket motor oil additives, make the motor oil “worse overall” than it was to begin with. But, that may or may not be the same situation here with your gear oil.
And I wonder just how much the differential clutch packs are slipping now, when you don’t want them to. Hopefully, you only added a little Slip Lock to try it out. You can always add more. But, a little at a time allows you to sneak up on it and only use what you need.
Take note of what your inside tires do now in a corner. And see if they still skid the tires on the pavement like previous gear oils did. The tires are not supposed to skid. But, that would be a point of comparison.
In general, just evaluate the performance overall of the diffs and see what you think.
One question for you. How do you get Amsoil products so fast, when virtually no brick and mortar stores carry their products? So, you typically can’t just walk in and buy something.
I always have to order their products, which then typically takes a day or two for an order to arrive. But, you seem to get their products the same day. What’s your secret?
Take care,
540 RAT
Hey 540 Rat-
I just seem to luck out. The Amsoil was 2 day delivery time since there is a Amsoil hub near me in the DFW area. The Valvoline happened to be on hand at a local NAPA store and the Slip Lock was on Amazon and showed up next day. (I had ordered it the other day as back up.) 🙂
Have a good night!
~Paul
Hi RAT,
I saw the discussion here about the 15W50 Mobil 1 a few days ago. Here is my 2 cents on all that.
It seems that many people on car forums consider Mobil 1 to be one of the top oil brands. They just think anything they sell will be top notch.
They have no proof of anything. They just think that Mobil 1 is good based on feelings and not much more. They are swayed by Mobil 1 advertising and by the bottles looking kind of cool. They have no data other than when they have used it, their engines did not blow up.
I’ve used most major oil brands at different times over the years. And I could never really tell any difference. None of my engines ever blew up. As near as I could tell, they all seemed about the same. I could not tell one from the other if I had been put in a blind test of some sort.
Then I found your Blog. With your Engineering Test Data, now we can see exactly how all these oils are different. Thank you for all your efforts. Now we can easily buy the best oil with confidence.
Just for fun, I checked a few auto parts stores in my area. Surprisingly I did find Mobil 1 15W50. They were all the older API SN version. I never did find any with the supposed latest API SP label.
I don’t understand why people want you to test that oil in a newer version. We have all learned from you that low cold viscosity ratings are important during startup and warmup. 0W and 5W oils are desirable. And higher cold viscosity ratings are not desirable. That means 15W50 is not a good choice.
You already have a Mobil 1, 5W50 oil in your air cooled engine article which did very well. That should be good enough for those who just have to have a Mobil 1 oil. Asking for data on 15W50 that is an undesirable viscosity makes no sense to me.
Thanks for everything you do.
Zenyatta
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Hi there,
You are 100% correct on all the points you made. You have been a good student of my Blog, and you have learned well.
Yes, in my Tech Article #69 on air-cooled engine oil, 5W50 Mobil 1, FSX2 did very well. It is ranked 6th out of 15 oils tested there. And with its excellent 5W50 viscosity rating, it is an excellent choice for any air-cooled engine. So, Mobil 1 lovers should be perfectly happy with this oil for air-cooled engines.
Even “IF” a newer version of the regular Mobil 1, 15W50 produced the same psi value as the 5W50 Mobil 1, FSX2, the 15W50 would be a poor choice because of its undesirable 15W cold viscosity rating.
Since that 15W50 Mobil 1 discussion here a few days ago, I went to Walmart and to O’Reilly’s Auto Parts Store, looking for the supposed new API SP version of it. I found regular 15W50 Mobil 1 at both places. But, they both only had the older/current API SN version. So far as I can tell in-person, an API SP version of that oil simply does not exist. At least not in my area.
Since its 15W50 viscosity is undesirable anyway, even if a newer version does eventually show up, it is not worth my time, effort, or money to test it.
Thanks for your 2 cents worth,
540 RAT
Howdy 540 Rat,
It’s the 2022 WRX guy again. As I stated last time my first oil change in the WRX I used Quaker State Full Synthetic with a Wix oil filter.
The factory oil I assume was Subaru 0W-20 (made by Idemitsu)
After the oil change I noticed my oil temperature ran a few degrees cooler. QSFS 5w-30 being thicker should theoretically run slightly warmer?
The outside temperature was the same and even warmer and the QSFS oil just seemed to run cooler in that engine. Oh, the WRX does have a digital oil temperature gauge.
Is it possible that the QSFS reduced friction causes cooler temps?
Again, thanks for all the work you have done. Thought you would be interested in my oil temp observation.
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Hi again,
Yes, I am interested to read about your oil temperature observation. Thanks for sharing.
And yes, traditionally, oil temperatures have typically increased as oil viscosity increases. Because thicker oil flows slower through the engine, and does not cool as well.
0W16, 0W20 and 5W20 are thinner than ideal. And are only intended to possibly, ever so slightly improve gas mileage. Though Owners can never measure any advantage compared to 0W30 or 5W30.
0W30 and 5W30 are “THE IDEAL” viscosity OVERALL for flow, lubrication, cooling, minimizing mechanical engine noise, and for engine wear protection, especially when run aggressively.
In addition to that, the fairly recent API SP revision, especially in the case of 5W30 Quaker State Full Synthetic, API SP, has approached being a Revolutionary change, rather than merely an Evolutionary change.
And yes, its friction reduction formulation reduces heat. Because friction means heat. So, less friction equals less heat.
We are fortunate to have the truly impressive 5W30 Quaker State Full Synthetic, API SP, readily available to us. And we can even get good prices on it at Walmart.
Take care,
540 RAT
540 RAT –
Seeing as how no oil manufacturer is to be trusted in relaying to the public any formulation changes to their oils, do you think it would be prudent to retest the top tier oil/oils in your list every two years or so? I know I would be willing to chip in for the costs and I bet more of your followers would feel the same just for the peace of mind.
Thanks for all you do!
Rich
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Hi Rich,
In a perfect world, that might be something to consider. But, performing my Engineering Torture Test on motor oil, is a huge effort, and takes a lot of time, money aside. So, it simply is not feasible to endlessly test oils.
My Engineering Tests have clearly shown, essentially the only motor oils today that are truly “Top Tier” performing oils, are some of the better, latest API SP oils.
None of the other motor oils even matter. Because the poor performing API SP and non-API motor oils should not be used, if people care about their engines.
We know when API motor oils are reformulated by changes in API certification, such as when they made the significant change from API SN Plus, to API SP.
If they were to change their oils for the worse, they would no longer meet their standing API certification, and could no longer legally be sold showing that standing certification.
With API certified oils in the past, it has been clear that a change was made, be it an API revision, or product name change. That was the case when Castrol ruined their oils. They had name changes and/or API revisions, which is what prompted me to retest them. That’s when I caught them in the act of ruining their oils.
The extremely poor performance of non-API oils such as High Zinc Racing Oils, etc, are really irrelevant, and are not worth retesting. So, we don’t care if they secretly change their formulations.
In the real world, I now typically retest the better performing oils only at API changes, which are significant. That is enough to ensure that we are getting what we need/want.
Take care,
540 RAT
Hi Rat.
(First, I want to ask, do you default see my previous posts on your monitor, or do you have to scroll back, manually?)
So far, I’ve figured out to receive a big box of super fine Amsoil 10W50 DirtBike oil (for a acceptable price), and replaced the timing chain.
But, the Quaker State QSFS for my cars….. No official EU-import company is found, yet. QuakerState.com don’t reply.. I only got in contact with some “local” US sparepart importers, which calculated prices between $49-58 pr. Quart! (NOT a typo) So I’m still searching 😉
During (previously) investigation, I discovered this engine oil tests, in EU:
1.a. Engine oil shear test.
XXX…
1.b. Results of shear tests.
XXX…
I’m all sure, you have some comments to this test…..
And NOT to forget, I’m still both very interested & impressed regarding this fabulous oil blog, THANK YOU!
Take care Sir!
KR.
Carsten.
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Hi again Carsten,
I have to scroll back manually to see your previous posts.
I do not allow links in my Blog. But, I did view both links you sent me, then I deleted them.
I do have a comment about that oil test. A lot of time and effort was obviously spent on that test. And he wants to charge people money to see more of it.
However, it clearly did NOT involve qualified, Degreed Mechanical Engineers. So unfortunately, it is crudely designed and poorly executed, making it just worthless garbage.
If you want to see Accurate and Reliable Engineering Test Data, that has been “PROVEN” TO EXACTLY MATCH real world experience, you still need to come to my Blog. Then look at my “Wear Protection Ranking List”, that you can easily make use of the next time you buy motor oil.
Take care,
540 RAT
Good day 540 rat
I have just stumbled across your blog this morning, awesome!
Should I go to Quaker State full synthetic 5W30 in a 2023 GR supra 3 L premium, recommended 0W20?
And 2015, Boxster GTS, recommended 5W40 to QS 5W30 synthetic?
Thank you in advance,
Frank
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Hi Frank,
Sorry to take so long to respond to your message. But, your message did not come in correctly. So, I just now came across it in my Spam Folder, 4 days after you sent it. Hopefully, you will find this response.
0W20 and 5W20 viscosities are THINNER THAN IDEAL for most water-cooled, gasoline powered engines. They are only intended to perhaps ever so slightly help gas mileage. But, Owners can never measure any improvement when compared to 0W30 or 5W30.
XW40 viscosities are THICKER THAN IDEAL for most water-cooled, gasoline powered engines.
0W30 and 5W30 are “THE IDEAL” viscosities for most water-cooled, gasoline powered engines.
5W30 Quaker State Full Synthetic, API SP is a FAR BETTER choice for your Supra.
5W30 Quaker State Full Synthetic, API SP is “also” a FAR BETTER choice for your Boxter. But in this case, since you are going to a thinner oil than you have been using, be sure to confirm that your fully warmed-up, normal operating temperature “Oil Pressure” is good. It should be fine, but you should double check it initially to be sure.
Take care,
540 RAT
Thank you so much Rat!
Surely, I (only) use your results, regarding oil for my water- and aircooled engines, gearbox and differentials.
If I cannot get the QSFS 5W30, chances for the Amsoil Signatures Series are better, but, so far, I’ve only got the 10W30 option, and that is to thick for winter use.
I’ll keep you informed what’s going on “over here”… 😉
Keep safe,
Carsten.
Hi 540 RAT,
You are my go to Technical expert. And I need your help. I’ve been trying to break loose some old rusted nuts with WD40. But it does not work. What should I be using that would actually work?
Thanks,
Zenyatta
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Hi there,
Thanks for thinking of me as your “GO TO” Technical Expert. I appreciate the kind words.
I’ve been wrenching on machines since I was a teenager. And along the way, I’ve run into many old rusted/corroded fasteners. So, I’ve had the opportunity to use WD40 and Kroil. Both of them turned out to be essentially worthless when you REALLY need a good penetrating oil.
But, you’ve come to the “right place” for the help you need. THE BEST penetrating oil I have ever used, and continue to use today, which has NEVER let me down, is a penetrating oil generally referred to as “PB BLASTER”.
Technically, the largest wording on the spray can says:
BLASTER, PB, PENETRATING CATALYST, #1 SELLING PENETRANT.
That Company has a number of different products. So, be sure you get the “exact product” I’ve indicated.
A 4 oz spray can is typically plenty for personal use, though it also comes larger. You can find it at Hardware Stores, Auto Parts Stores, or of course on-line. A 4 oz spray can usually costs around $5.00 give or take, depending on where you get it.
Here’s how I recommend using it:
1. If you have access, use a toothbrush sized wire brush to remove all visible, rust/corrosion/crust. That way the fastener itself will be open to the best application of the PB BLASTER.
2. Depending on the particular case, the length of time to soak, and number of applications of PB BLASTER can vary widely. So, just keep soaking the fastener until it finally breaks free. It could take 20 minutes, or it could take two days for the most stubborn case you are likely to ever encounter. But as I said, PB BLASTER has never let me down, even in cases that were thought to be impossible.
Take care,
540 RAT
Hello Mr. Rat,
I have a limited slip differential on my 2014 F150 9.75 inch axle. When it engages in the snowy conditions – mainly at lower speeds negotiating the deep snow on the driveway – it shudders to the point of making the whole vehicle shake. Would you know what that would be symptom of ? It still has the factory fill in it and its at 130,000 km. I thought I would ask here first because I don’t care to set foot in a Stealership. The fluid level is correct and I am inclined to think it may be a fault with the factory fill or it may be degradation of the friction modifier additive over the years. But that ia only speculation on my part.
Dean
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Hi again Dean,
Does this ONLY happen in REALLY cold snowy conditions, BEFORE the gear oil has warmed-up? Gear Oil warms-up just like motor oil warms-up. Though gear oil has a normal operating temperature of only around 180*F (82*C), in moderate ambient (surrounding air) temperatures.
Or have you also noticed this problem at more mild temperatures? Odd things can sometimes happen when it is REALLY cold.
If it ONLY happens in REALLY cold snowy conditions, with REALLY cold gear oil, then it is only a temperature generated condition.
But, if you just can’t stand it, then here is what I suggest:
About a week ago, you said you bought some Valvoline synthetic 75w140 gear oil and the LSD friction modifier additive from Ford.
As you stated, the Valvoline Gear Oil description says its recommended for limited slip differentials (LSD), which means it does not need friction modifier added to it.
You have enough miles/kms on the factory gear oil, that the first thing I would do is change the gear oil to the Valvoline Gear Oil you bought. Then see how that goes.
If things are still not to your satisfaction, add some of that Ford friction modifier, even though that Gear Oil is not supposed to need it, a little at a time, until the shuddering goes away.
So, there is no need to go to the Stealership. 😊
Take care,
540 RAT
Hello Mr. Rat,
PSA regarding limited slip differentials – if anyone ever has to run a spare in the back, both tires have to be the exact same size on each side otherwise the Limited slip mechanism will destroy itself. If I ever get a flat in the back I’ll be using one of the front tires as replacement and put the spare on the front.
Dean
Hello Mr. Rat,
Good point about the cold weather, I never even thought of that. It occurred yesterday ( as usual ) after the 2 minute warm up as I drove out the long rural , snow covered driveway. After my next long trip ( 45 minutes of driving ) I’ll see if it acts up on the way back in.
Thank you for pointing the cold weather issue out.
In the news – A Norwegian ferry service denies EV’s entry onto their vessels because of their spontaneous combustion issues.
Dean
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Hi Dean,
Let me know how things work out with your differential.
Thanks for sharing the News about EV’s being denied entry because of their lithium ion batteries having a frightening tendency to burst into flames without warning. Those fires are extremely difficult to extinguish.
So, if this happens at night inside an attached home garage, it puts everyone asleep inside the house, in grave danger, as these lithium ion fires can burn everything near them, to the ground.
Just last week a Tesla EV was driving along normally on the freeway in Los Angeles and burst into flames. It did not hit anything. There was no crash. It simply burst into flames all on its own.
The Fire Department said it was so difficult to put the fire out, that it took a WHOPPING 20,000 gallons of water to extinguish it.
EV’s are THE WORST and MOST DANGEROUS vehicles ever created. If a gas vehicle model was this dangerous, it would immediately be taken off the roads.
But, since the whole EV Industry is the pet project of Politicians who are not of sound mind, and of insane radical climate fanatics, no one says a word, nor does anything about how dangerous EV’s are.
There is not a peep out of the US NHTSA (National Highway Traffic Safety Administration). Their whole purpose is vehicle SAFETY, but they are so Politically corrupt, that they put their misguided climate agenda ABOVE the lives of citizens.
Take care,
540 RAT
Hello Mr. Rat,
As soon as I get my F150 back on the road I’ll post a message about cold vs. warmed up differential oil performance. The left front IWE ( Integrated Wheel End ) has just failed for the third time. That is the side that gets most of the salt exposure as they mostly salt and sand the middle of the road round these parts. The design itself is a bit of a faux pas because it will fail unpredictably at a time when you need it the most. Ford should have included a “system vacuum disconnect switch” on the dashboard so when it does fail no potential damage could occur to the system and you could still have 4wd.
EV’s – I saw an article where the CO2 emissions were calculated from gathering raw materials to finished product AND driving around once the vehicle gets on the road. The conclusion was that EV’s were on par with a regular sized 6 cylinder sedan but no advantage over a Naturally Aspirated 4 cylinder vehicle. These were mathematical FACTS that climate fanatics should look at ( but they never will because fanatics don’t seem to have the capacity for logic ).
Dean
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Hi again Dean,
Yes, anyone who buys an EV (electric vehicle) is either a complete idiot, or else simply ignorant of how “UNBELIEVABLY BAD” EV’s are in the real world.
“Some” of the biggest problems with EV’s are:
1. They are typically priced much higher than the FAR BETTER gas vehicles.
2. From time to time, EV’s lithium ion batteries spontaneously burst into flames with no warning. If this happens in an attached home garage at night, it puts everyone sleeping inside, in grave danger. This is a MAJOR SAFETY CONCERN that is simply being ignored. Climate agenda is being put above the lives of people.
3. When the battery charge is maintained between 20% and 80% for best battery life, the real world “range” is only about “HALF” of what the US EPA Estimated Range is. The EPA Estimated Range is “intentionally” false. Because of blatant corruption, they try to make EV’s seem way better than they really are. Buyer Beware!!!
4. The corrupt, climate fanatic Politicians and their EV Industry are SO DISHONEST, that they promote using “Fast Chargers” to reduce EV charging time from many hours, down to perhaps an hour or more, to make EV’s seem not so bad. But, their dirty little secrets, that they do NOT reveal, is that “Fast Chargers” cost a lot more to use, often costing more than buying gas. And that using “Fast Chargers”, hit the battery pack so hard and so quick, that it shortens the life of an EV’s HORRIBLY EXPENSIVE battery pack. But, they don’t care about you and the massive cost of the battery pack. They just want to get you into an EV, and let you deal with premature battery failure down the road.
5. COLD weather battery range is typically reduced by as much as 50% compared to mild weather range. And COLD weather recharging is a MAJOR PROBLEM. The batteries either take WAY LONGER than normal to charge, or they will not charge at all. So, your expensive EV can leave you stranded.
6. EV’s can’t really use their A/C in “hot” weather, because it runs the battery down too quickly.
7. EV’s can’t really use their heater in “cold” weather, because it runs the battery down too quickly.
8. Pick-up EV’s can’t really haul or tow, because doing that runs the battery down to quickly.
9. The never-ending aggravation of the time, and cost of recharging the battery, which is often more costly and ALWAYS WAY, WAY MORE TIME CONSUMING, than filling up a gas engine vehicle.
10. During summer heat waves, many areas encounter electricity shortages. Then Officials say to NOT use major appliances, and to NOT charge EV’s between 4 and 9 pm. Or else they may also resort to rolling blackouts. That of course means extreme difficulties for keeping an EV charged for many people. If you can’t charge your EV, you have no usable vehicle.
11. When the battery pack eventually fails and has to be replaced, which “naturally” is often much sooner than claimed, can cost tens of “thousands” of dollars.
12. Substantial unregulated global pollution is created in 3rd World Countries when mining materials to build EV’s. But, that is not taken into account when EV’s are claimed to be zero emissions vehicles. The FACTS indicate that after all things are considered, EV’s really don’t help the environment at all. These climate fanatics were WRONG AGAIN!!!
EV’s are THE WORST vehicles ever created!!! The whole notion of EV’s saving the planet, is based on lies and corruption.
More specifically, people who buy EV’s, are either insane climate fanatics who don’t know, or don’t care about the truth, or they are people too dumb to research what they are getting themselves into before buying one.
Whichever is the case, they deserve what they get. And if they have any brain at all, they will end up suffering SEVERE buyers remorse, and then go back to gas vehicles.
Take care,
540 RAT
First, Thank you for investing the time and effort into producing this blog. I love having facts to base my decisions on. I am an engine builder with almost 40 years’ experience. I own and operate a very complete machine shop and dyno facility. (SuperFlow SF 901). I don’t pretend to know everything, but I have seen a lot of stuff. I have a comment and would like to hear your response. I only use flat tappet cams if it is the only option. A recent experience solidified my stance. I rebuilt a reverse rotation 351W boat engine. I requested a hydraulic roller cam from my company of choice. They informed me that there were no cores available. So, I had them grind me a flat tappet reverse rotation cam. (Basically, an RV cam) I bought their springs and lifters also. I used their cam lube and covered the cam and lifters completely. I used Quaker State Full synthetic oil to break in the engine on my dyno. The engine ran 8 minutes when the rockers started getting noisy. Upon disassembly I found 13 damaged cam lobes. Scored cylinder walls and pistons, and the crankshaft and bearings were trashed. I called the cam manufacturer and asked what I may have done wrong, not wanting to do the same thing again. I talked with an engineer at length and mentioned to him your wear protection testing and the fact that I had used an oil at the top of your list. His reply. Basically, we don’t know what could have caused the issue. He said “some of the guys in back have suggested that some oils may be so slick that the lifters do not establish a rotation pattern”. I bored the engine, turned the crank, installed the second identical cam and lifters. This time I used Amsoil breakin oil. The engine ran for 20 minutes. Since it was reverse rotation I could not make any pulls for power testing. I delivered the engine to the customers local mechanic shop They installed the engine, and the customer went to the lake. That was about 3 years ago. I assume (yes, I am fully aware of the meaning) the engine is still running since I have not heard back from him. I would love to hear your thoughts. DP in LA. (lower Arkansas)
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Hi David,
Yes, I have the answer for you. There is only ONE THING that can cause total engine destruction like that in 8 minutes, with no load on the engine (you said the reverse rotation prevented any dyno pulls). That is a textbook example of engine failure due to “oil starvation”, because oil was NOT being pumped through the engine.
Even the worst, cheapest, poorest performing, no name motor oil, would NOT have caused total engine destruction like that in 8 minutes with no load, if the oil had been flowing properly through the engine.
Your problem was NOT the oil. Your problem was THE LACK of oil flowing through the engine. If you spin a normal oil pump backwards, it will NOT pump oil through the engine. So, in a reverse rotation engine, you will need a different oil pump setup in order to pump oil through the engine.
This is also EXACTLY what happens if someone forgot to put oil in the engine, and it was running only on assembly lube. So, either the engine had an oil pumping problem, or the engine had no oil, or not enough oil in it.
Just so you know, Cam Companies typically do NOT employ actual qualified, Degreed Engineers. Whoever they put on the phone for you to talk to, may or may not have been given the fake title of Engineer. But, he almost certainly was NOT really an Engineer.
That’s why the guy you talked to there, and his people in the back, had no clue what happened to your engine. But, I am a qualified, experienced, Degreed Mechanical Engineer, and I immediately knew, exactly what caused your engine problem, based on your description.
The Major Corporation I worked for early in my career, did not actually have people with Engineering Degrees, in their U.S. Corporate Headquarters’ “Engineering Department”. Many companies just give out that job title that means nothing.
And it is quite common for Aftermarket Automotive Companies to have the word “Engineering” in their Company name, even though there is not one Degreed Engineer employed there.
And to clear up any confusion about Quaker State motor oil. 3 years ago, the full synthetic Quaker State motor oil was named “Ultimate Durability”. 5W30 Quaker State Ultimate Durability, API SN Plus, was being sold at that time. It was among my highest ranked oils, but it was NOT THE top ranked oil. So, you did NOT have the latest API SP motor oil in that engine.
Then 2 years ago, 5W30 Quaker State Full Synthetic (its “name” is Full Synthetic), API SP, an all-new, latest technology oil was introduced. This oil set the Highest, all-time BEST Wear Protection Capability ever recorded. And it is my Number 1 Ranked motor oil. I use it in ALL of my own engines from stock, to high performance, including a flat tappet engine.
Break-In oils are not needed, and never have been needed. Automakers have been making vehicles for over 100 years, and they have NEVER used Break-In oil.
The BIG NAME Oil Companies do NOT even make so-called Break-In oil. Because they know what they are doing.
I have been building engines for decades myself, and I have NEVER EVER used Break-In oil. And every engine I have built has been perfectly fine. I don’t even know anyone who has ever used Break-In oil.
Engineering Tests have shown over and over again, that Break-In oils are THE WORST performing motor oils on the market, and should NEVER be used.
In fact, the term “Break-In” itself is only a MYTH. Brand new engine components are “Forced” to immediately seat in with their mating components in order to carry the load being applied to them. So, no special “Human Controlled” Break-In process is required.
The latest 5W30 Quaker State Full Synthetic, API SP, has been used in many brand new engines from first fire, on, with no problems at all.
Many flat tappet engines, including dedicated Drag Race engines, have also been using 5W30 Quaker State Full Synthetic, API SP, with excellent results.
There is no reason to avoid flat tappet cams, “If” the engine is built properly, and you use the right motor oil.
Don’t assume your customer is happy only because you have not heard from him again. Because if he had a second blown engine from your Shop, he would almost certainly take it somewhere else.
BOTTOM LINE:
5W30 Quaker State Full Synthetic, API SP, is THE BEST performing motor oil on the market today. So, it is the best oil you can use in any of your engines that can run a 5W30 motor oil.
Take care,
540 RAT
Hi RAT,
Here is my take. This whole electric vehicle EV push is the absolute dumbest thing I have ever seen Politicians try to ram down their citizens’ throats.
To put it bluntly, anyone who pushes or buys EV’s has sh** for brains.
Thanks for everything you do here in this Blog to help us normal car guys. Without this Blog, we would have nowhere to go for help.
Zenyatta
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Hi again,
You are totally correct about the insanity of EV’s.
I have to think that this whole EV thing will eventually collapse of its own failures. Because as more and more ignorant and uniformed people buy them, more and more people will learn how impossible, and how dangerous (because of their tendency to spontaneously burst into flames) it is to live with with all the shortcomings of an EV.
So, I expect EV sales will grow to a point, then reverse and fall. Time will tell…
Thanks for the kind words. Since most information out there about cars is completely WRONG, I am proud that my Blog is THE SOURCE for FACTUAL Engineering Information, that car guys can rely on.
Take care,
540 RAT
I was a signature series Amsoil user in my 2018 3.5 Ecoboost F150 for about 4 years.
When I recently (about 1 year ago now) acquired my 2022 Powerboost F150 (Hybrid with the same 3.5 Ecoboost motor) I came across your blog and since I felt validated on my oil choice I was stunned to see your report on QSFS!
I drained the factory fill on the new truck at 1500 miles and purchased enough QSFS for 5 oil changes. It is an amazing value equation considering.
I’ve been changing oil at about 3000-3500 miles. I can’t help myself. I’m an old school old man. But my concern is that even at 3000 miles it seems thin on the way out compared to the fresh pour.
Blackstone analysis states no significant fuel dilution and plenty of additives still present. But both analysis also mention viscosity closer to 20W than 30W.
Also, although it could be placebo induced, I feel the motor is noticeably quieter with a fresh pour. The motor doesn’t sound disturbing in any way at 3000 miles, but I swear it’s quieter with the fresh oil.
Just curious what your thoughts are.
And I want to express my gratitude for all that you generously share. Thanks
Bruce
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Hi Bruce,
I would not put any faith in anything that comes from Blackstone, because they cannot be trusted. I know Automotive Forum people always talk about using Blackstone. But, those people are infamous for having no idea what they are doing.
Some years back, I caught Blackstone providing bad information for some analysis work I had them do for me. When I called them out for that, they denied it and lied about it. But, when I proved their error, they had to finally admit they performed the analysis wrong. Then they redid the test correctly, but I NEVER used them again since they are dishonest, incompetent, and therefore cannot be trusted.
I do not recommend that anyone use Blackstone. The whole idea of getting a used oil analysis (UOA) performed on your vehicle’s used oil, provides very little useful information, outside of wear metals. In fact, 99% of all vehicles on the road, have never had their used oil tested. And they do not litter the roads with blown engines.
You do NOT “need” a used oil analysis. So, you can avoid dealing with the time, hassle, cost of used oil testing if you simply use an excellent performing motor oil, such as 5W30 Quaker State Full Synthetic (QSFS), API SP, use a top quality oil filter such as Motorcraft, Purolator, or Bosch, and change the oil and filter at “reasonable” intervals.
It does not surprise me that Blackstone would say something as dumb as “viscosity is closer to 20W than 30W”, which is total NONSENSE. The oil would simply either be IN THE 5W20 range OR IN THE 5W30 range.
For example:
5W20 viscosity range at 100*C (212*F) is 5.6 cSt to <9.3 cSt.
5W30 viscosity range at 100*C (212*F) is 9.3 cSt to <12.5 cSt.
cSt = centistokes, a measurement of oil thickness. The higher the cSt value, the thicker the oil.
So, you can clearly see that a 5W30 would be IN ONE RANGE OR IN THE OTHER RANGE, NOT “CLOSER” TO ONE THAN THE OTHER, which makes no sense.
You said the report indicated no “significant” fuel dilution. But, that is not “zero” fuel dilution. You typically would not expect to see “any” measurable fuel dilution, especially at only 3,000 to 3,500 miles. So, there is evidently “some” fuel dilution. That could explain why the oil “seems” thinner when being drained, even though it is still most likely within its specified viscosity range.
“Some” measurable fuel dilution typically comes from a lot of short trips, where there are obviously a lot of COLD start-ups with their extra rich, fuel laden mixtures, and the engine is not run long enough to be fully warmed-up each time. That allows for undesirable build-up concentrations.
However, you did not provide any actual cSt values, showing that the oil was “out of grade”, so there is no indication of an actual viscosity concern. Without any values, I can’t address any specifics from their report.
All I can say is that “seems”, “feels”, and “swear” are words that on Forums, pass for something meaningful. But, they fall into the category of opinion, speculation, and guessing. And the truth is, they are totally worthless. Only “accurate” hard Test Data values provide information you can work with.
Just so you know, premium synthetic motor oils do not use viscosity improvers/modifiers that can degrade. So, the “oil itself” does not wear out or thin out. But, it can be diluted by fuel, condensation water, or coolant. And of course its additive package will degrade, and it will become contaminated.
*****
This recently came from one of my other Blog readers:
Thought you'd be interested in my used oil report on the Ford 5.0 Coyote V-8 engine with the first fill of QSFS 5w30 – by comparison, it had *significantly* less iron and less overall other wear metals than the previous test which ran Pennzoil Platinum 5w30. That was also during harder working conditions for the engine (cold, short runs etc.)
His information, did not show comparison values, but it was completely consistent with my Engineering Test Data that shows 5W30 Quaker State Full Synthetic, API SP, provides THE BEST wear protection ever recorded.
*****
The placebo effect on sound is the same thing as when you wash your car, and you would “swear” it runs better.
Just keep in mind that the engine should always be run at least a half an hour after it reaches full operating temperature. That will burn off unwanted normal condensation and other undesirable build-up.
Also, using 5W30 Quaker State Full Synthetic, API SP, and changing the oil at about 3000-3500 miles, will keep your 2022 Powerboost F150 very well protected.
Take care,
540 RAT
Hello Mr Rat,
I disconnected and capped the vacuum line that operates the rubber diaphram engagement mechanism on the front wheels so no funny grinding noises AND I can still have 4wd until I get the IWE (integrated wheel end ) replaced at my leisure. I know this may beyond the subject of this blog but it may be useful to other 4×4 F- 150 owners. Its not if their IWE will fail but when – especially in colder climates.
Rear differential – I tested it at operating temperature on a smooth slippery surface ( patted down snow ) and no shuddering. I then tested it “cold” on a smooth slippery surface again and it was smooth as silk when it engaged ( watching both tires via rear view mirrors ). When I returned to my snow covered driveway it shuddered and shook again. So it is really a dynamic of how the rear tires compress and push themselves off in certain types of snow. ( Freshly fallen loose flakes, slightly melted, melted and then refroze, settled snow that didn’t melt yet, etc. ) When I got out and looked back I could see “waves” in the snow that would be commensurate with what I was experiencing in the vehicle. I was driving in “slightly melted” and “melted and refroze” snow which will pack under the wheel, compress and then launch it foward so to speak thus creating visible “waves” and shaking in the cabin. I also suspect it would not be a bad idea to replace the rear shocks too. General Grabber ATX’s are what’s on the truck and its certainly a testament to their ability to grip. I will still change the rear axle fluid anyway as it is time.
Dean
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Hi Dean,
Thanks for sharing your experience.
I consider this a “Technical Blog”, NOT exclusively an oil Blog, even though the primary focus is generally on oil.
Oil is the primary focus here, because my Blog is the ONLY source available anywhere, for FACTUAL Engineering information about oil, that EXACTLY MATCHES real world experience. NO ONE ELSE performs the comprehensive and valid, proprietary (confidential intellectual property that cannot be shared) Engineering oil testing that I do.
People CANNOT go to Automotive Forums, engine builders, Cam Companies, etc, for useful oil information. Because those places throw out only WRONG/BAD information, that is total NONSENSE, from unqualified, incompetent people who have no idea what they are talking about when it comes to oil.
Those people base everything they say on opinions, theories, assumptions, feelings, guessing, and belligerent anger. They are NEVER able to provide any supporting data to back-up anything they say. Everything they throw out is simply WORTHLESS GARBAGE.
So, my Blog is the ONLY place people can go for accurate and reliable, real world Engineering Test Data information on oil, that they can confidently make use of, the next time they buy oil.
If you browse through my “Table of Contents”, you will see that various Tech Articles here in my Blog, have nothing to do with oil at all.
So, a wide range of various Technical discussions here in this Q&A Section are perfectly fine.
Take care,
540 RAT
Hi there 540 RAT!
Firstly, I want to thank you for testing Ravenol 5W30 VMP USVO oil. I sincerely appreciate it. Because Ravenol 0W30 VSW USVO had done so well on your ranking list (No. 5) I was hoping that the Ravenol VMP oil would rank similarly high but, alas, I was wrong. No. 23 isn’t bad but I was hoping for a top 10 finish, hehehe. Anyway, it is what it is, as they say.
I live in South Africa and, although Ravenol sells many of its lubricants here, it does not stock 0W30 VSW USVO oil. It does, however, sell the 5W30 VMP USVO oil. The sad thing about being a gearhead in South Africa is the fact that we don’t have access to the top 12 oils on your lubrication ranking list. I would LOVE to use Quaker State QSFS, Amsoil, or even Tribodyn or Mercury but none of these companies have a presence in South Africa.
Additionally, because of our weak currency, importing these oils from the US is out of the question. The highest ranking oil on your list, that IS available in South Africa, is No. 13: the Castrol GTX 5W30 / Prolong combination.
You won’t remember me, but I was one of the people who, back in 2013, asked you to test Prolong. I had already been religiously using Prolong since the early 2000’s and wanted to know if it really did reduce engine-friction.
Despite the bad press Prolong received I continued using it, figuring that, because I frequently change the oil on all of my vehicles (every 3000 – 5000 miles) the Chlorinated-Paraffins present in Prolong wouldn’t have much time to attack and corrode the engine-bearings.
In October last year I had the V345 (345 cu. in.) V8 engine out of my 1973 International Harvester 1310 rebuilt and I asked the guys at the automotive machine-shop to call me just after the tear-down of the engine. I explained to the owner of the machine shop that Prolong supposedly has a reputation of causing bearing-damage and I wanted to use the opportunity to inspect the bearings, and other wear-surfaces, for any kind of unusual, potentially corrosion-related damage. Long story short, for an engine that had done 280,000+ miles, it was in exceptional condition. No unnatural-looking, or unusual kind of wear or damage was found on any of the bearings or bushes. In fact, the owner of the machine shop told me that the only areas that really needed refurbishment/replacement was the cylinder-bores and piston-rings.
My dad has also been a religious user of Prolong in his vehicles for about as long as I have (20+ years) and, in January of this year, he had the 351 Cleveland engine out of his 1974 Ford Ranchero re-built by the same shop. After the same kind of inspection that was done on my International, they found the Ranchero’s high-mileage (250,000+ miles) Cleveland to be in very good condition.
Knowing what we were looking for in the inspections, and having refurbished thousands of engines over the years, the owner of the machine-shop said he could not find any unusual, previously unseen kind of wear – in addition to what would be considered normal for an old but well-maintained high-mileage engine.
I know that my dad and I can only speak for ourselves. I am also not trying to convince anyone to start using Prolong. The only thing I wanted to share was my experience with the long-term use of Prolong in older, American-made V8 engines.
I will be honest; I was more than a little worried that I would find damage that could be positively attributable to the use of Prolong but nothing unusual was found.
My hope is that this information might be of value to some of your readers who, like me, do not have access to oils made by top-notch companies like Quaker State, Amsoil, Ravenol, Mercury, etc.
In closing I would like to thank you for this excellent blog that you run, and for the professional, unbiased, fact-based work that you do. I – and so many others – consider you to be the world-authority on automotive lubrication testing.
Take care, 540 Rat.
Kind Regards,
Pat
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Hi Pat,
Thanks for getting in touch and sharing your experience with Prolong.
Prolong doesn’t just have bad press. Their product has damaged so many engines, that they have had to face Lawsuits about it. You used to be able to Google that and read about those Lawsuits. But, more recently, that information would not come up. It would seem they employed one of those Companies that are able to pull unfavorable info off of the Internet.
As you said, apparently because of the frequent oil change intervals you use on all of your vehicles (every 3000 – 5000 miles), the Prolong didn’t have enough time to attack and corrode the engine-bearings. Also, the particular motor oils you mixed it with, and the particular usage your vehicles were subjected to, were no doubt a factor as well. So, good for you. You have been very lucky, and have been able to dodge a bullet doing that.
But, others who mix Prolong with different motor oils, and subject their vehicles to different types of usage, may well suffer the catastrophic engine damage that Prolong is infamous for.
You are braver than I am. I would not be willing to risk my engines by using one of the worst aftermarket additives ever to be put on the market. Using that product is much like playing Russian Roulette with an engine. Chlorinated additives are so bad, that the Motor Oil Industry banned their use in new factory oil, many years ago.
However, I can understand your unique predicament, being in South Africa and not having access to the best motor oils available. And what works for your application, works. So, no one can argue with your results.
Nothing is absolute. Some people can live to a ripe old age, even though they chain-smoked for decades. But, others die at a young age, from causes related to smoking. So, you just never know.
But, my Engineering Blog is the “GO TO” source for FACTUAL information on providing what is BEST for our engines. So, I still have to go on record and say for everyone reading this, that I DO NOT RECOMMEND using any aftermarket motor oil additives. Because they typically ruin the oil’s carefully balanced Factory additive package, making the oil WORSE OVERALL, than it was to begin with.
Everyone is best served by selecting a Highly Ranked, High psi motor oil, in the appropriate viscosity for their application, from my Wear Protection Ranking List. That will provide your engine with the BEST possible wear protection. If the oil you chose, needs help, you have chosen the WRONG oil.
But, if you find yourself in Pat’s unique situation, where the best motor oils are not available to you, then unfortunately you just have to do the best you can.
By the way, just so you know, a number of years back, after BP bought Castrol motor oils, they ruined those oils, apparently to cut costs and maximize profits. Now, I do NOT use Castrol oils, I do NOT recommend them, and I do NOT waste my time, effort, or money to test them anymore.
And thanks for the kind words, I appreciate that.
Take care,
540 RAT
Hi Rat!
A ‘short’ post from me 😉
Can you please confirm this transmission oil, I can get here in EU, is similar to the one you has ranked as #1 in your chart?
Amsoil Severe Gear Oil 75W-140.
XXX…
Is it suitable BOTH for manual 5-speed gearbox and AWD differential’s in my vechicles – also when manufacturer recommends “only” 75(80)W-90?
Wintertime, thin and fine, but will it be to thick at summertime? (have I missed something during studying your blog?!)
FYI: QuakerState QSFS is not to get over here (except you pay about $58,,, pr. Quart!), so I’ll stick with the Amsoil SS 5W-30 😉
Still *highly* appreciating your exiting, interesting post’s/updates very much!
KR.
Carsten.
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Hi again Carsten,
I viewed the link you sent me. And yes, it is the same Amsoil 75W140 Severe Gear Lube(Oil) I tested, that is ranked number 1 for gear oils.
All lubricating oils, no matter what their viscosity rating is, will get thicker and thicker as they get colder and colder. And they will get thinner and thinner as they get hotter and hotter.
Gear oils and motor oils use a different scale for their viscosity ratings, which means their viscosity values cannot be directly compared.
Here is how gear oil viscosity compares to motor oil viscosity:
75W90 gear oil has about the same viscosity as 10W40 motor oil.
75W140 gear oil has about the same viscosity as 20W50 motor oil.
That means the actual viscosity difference between 75W90 and 75W140 is not as large as 90 and 140 would suggest.
And keep in mind that they both have the same 75wt cold viscosity rating. They differ primarily in their 90wt and 140wt hot viscosity ratings. But again, we are talking the relatively small difference between the thicknesses of 10W40 and 20W50 motor oils that we are more familiar with. So, while there is a normal operational temperature thickness difference, that difference is not huge.
In a perfect world where we would change our gear oil with the seasons, we might want to use 75W90 in EXTREMELY COLD weather, so that the gear oil does not become overly thick.
And we might want to use 75W140 in EXTREMELY HOT weather, so that the gear oil does not become overly thin.
But in the real world, 75W90 or 75W140 can be used year around. The only real “overall” difference is 75W140 being a little thicker, will generate a little more viscous drag. If you could measure that very precisely, you may find that vehicle acceleration is “ever so slightly” reduced. And that fuel mileage may be “ever so slightly” reduced. However, Owners typically cannot tell any difference.
Amsoil says that their Severe Gear Oils can be used in differentials, including limited slip differentials, manual transmissions, and other gear applications requiring API GL-5 and MT-1. And that they can be used in differentials requiring API GL-4.
So, Amsoil 75W140 Severe Gear Lube(Oil) is fine to use in your vehicles, as long as you do NOT use it in an automatic transmission.
You can ignore a manufacturer’s recommendation to use “only” 75(80)W-90. Because that slightly thinner gear oil is only intended to “ever so slightly” possibly help improve fuel economy.
Take care,
540 RAT
Hello Mr. Rat,
To further expound upon the shaking I experienced, I think the rate at which the wheels compressed the snow and launched the truck forward matched the natural frequency of the leaf springs, coupled with the fact that the shock absorbers are wearing out ( the truck is more bouncy at the back end with an empty bed than usual ) made the perfect storm so to speak thus resulting in the truck shaking like an earthquake. I never investigated the issue and assumed right of the bat it would be the anti slip differential so lesson learned.
Integrated wheel ends ( IWE’s) F150’s had this feature since 2004 so there are millions of them on the road. When the rubber diaphram at the hub fails it results in partial engagement thus resulting in grinding noises ( and actual grinding too ). To remedy this the one vacuum line leading to the front wheels has to be removed ( and covered so no debris gets into the system ) and it will let the IWE reconnect to the wheel hub fully so there won’t be anymore grinding until it gets fixed. The CV axles in the front will now be engaged to the wheels full time. The vacuum line is attached to a solenoid so the solenoid’s vacuum port has to be capped where the line was removed otherwise there will be a vacuum leak and will lead to excess fuel consumption.
Dean
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Hi again Dean,
Thanks for sharing. Keep me posted on how all this works out.
Take care,
540 RAT
Hello Mr. 540 RAT,
I have been following your blog for many years and would like to thank you for all the hard work you have done for us gear heads.
Reading your results with Mobil-1 Multi Vehicle Full Synthetic ATF, and the fact my vehicle was due for fresh fluid, I changed out the Toyota WS fluid in my 2004 Land Cruiser w/A750F transmission to Mobil-1.
I performed a total of 6 drain and fills driving roughly 50 miles between each drain. I try to keep the fluid change intervals between 20K and 30K as I do tow. It has been several hundred miles now, and the transmission operates flawlessly. Also, I have not been able to measure any change in fuel consumption.
The factory maintenance manuals warn about using any fluid other than Toyota WS as it will be detrimental to shift quality, especially in cold weather. Several days driving in temperatures that were in the teens proved that there was no noticeable difference in how the transmission shifted.
Granted, a 2004 A750F is not high tech by todays standards, but I am going to stay with the Mobil-1 fluid until your testing provides us with a better ATF.
Thanks again for all of your time and effort creating and maintaining this blog!
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Hi Ed,
You are welcome. I’m glad to read that you value the Engineering information I share here in my Blog, enough to be a follower for many years.
And thank you very much for the excellent evaluation/feedback on your experience with Mobil-1 Multi Vehicle Full Synthetic ATF, which is BY FAR the top ranked, best performing ATF in my Engineering Tests. This is the ATF I plan to use myself, the next time I need to change ATF.
Do not have any concern about ignoring the Toyota factory maintenance manual’s warning about using any fluid other than Toyota WS. Because I have never known Toyota’s recommendations to ever be honest/correct. It has always been best to ignore anything Toyota says.
Take care,
540 RAT
Hi rat，
My car is a 2017 LAND CRUISER 4.0 and reading your results with Mobil-1 Multi Vehicle Full Synthetic ATF, and I changed out the Toyota WS fluid in my Land Cruiser transmission to Mobil-1. It works fine.
I using Mobil 1 Syn Gear Lube LS 75W-90, we were finding large amounts of steel powder build-up on their differential’s magnetic drain plugs.
Valvoline Gear oil is not available in our country, but Ravenol, Shell and Amsoil are available.
Is it possible to use Amsoil 75w140 as a direct replacement for the less effective Mobil 1 LS 75w90? For example LAND CRUISER and BMW 5 2.0t.
My friends recommend Ravenol 75w90 and Redline 75w90, but I don’t want to try and make mistakes just want to know your opinion.
Thank you for your help in advance,
XIE
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Hi there,
Obviously Mobil 1 Syn Gear Lube LS 75W-90 is a very poor performer, if you are finding large amounts of steel powder build-up on differential magnetic drain plugs. So, it should not be used.
I do not have any test data on Ravenol 75w90 or Redline 75w90. So, I cannot say if they are good or bad.
Gear oils and motor oils use a different scale for their viscosity ratings, which means their viscosity values cannot be directly compared.
Here is how gear oil viscosity compares to motor oil viscosity:
75W90 gear oil has about the same viscosity as 10W40 motor oil.
75W140 gear oil has about the same viscosity as 20W50 motor oil.
That means the actual viscosity difference between 75W90 and 75W140 is not as large as 90 and 140 would suggest.
Therefore, you can use Amsoil 75W140 Severe Gear Oil as a direct replacement for the Mobil 1, 75W90, if you desire excellent wear protection.
The 75W140 will be a little thicker than 75W90, but it is very unlikely you will even notice the difference when driving.
Take care,
540 RAT
Good morning 540 RAT!
Thank you for posting my comment about Prolong and giving feedback. I was really eager to find out what your professional-take on my experience would be. After reading your reply, it started sinking in that yes, I dodged a bullet there…
I so wish that I could use Quaker State Full Synthetic, but I am in contact with a representative of Ravenol South Africa, and there is a possibility that they will be able to supply me with the No. 5 oil on your list: Ravenol 0W30 VSW USVO. If I can secure a supply of that oil I know my engine-lubrication needs will be taken care of and I won’t have to rely on dodgy alchemy and the backyard oil-mixing practices that I have been engaging in, hehehe.
Thank you again for taking the time to reply to my, and all the rest of your readers’ questions and comments. I know we can rely on your advice because it’s based on science and measurable facts, not opinion or emotion.
Have a wonderful week, sir!
Kind Regards,
Pat
Hi Rat.
Some fuss occured Yesterday when I uploaded a post. Did you get it? It’s gone…? Thx.!
Carsten.
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Hi Carsten,
I did not see a message from you come through yesterday. I will check my Spam Folder as soon as I get a chance, and see if it is in there.
Thanks for letting me know.
540 RAT
******* Follow-up is immediately below *******
I did find your message in my Spam Folder. I accepted it, and it is automatically placed where it would have come in yesterday, based on the date and clock time.
I responded to your question there. Just scroll back several messages until you find it.
Take care,
540 RAT
Howdy 540 Rat,
I was having a discussion about motor oils with a colleague, and he stated that all synthetic oil was inherently superior than conventional oil due to better additive composition and anti-sludge characteristics.
I follow your page and frequently consult it when I need good advice for oils. I replied to him that the only properties that matter for a normal vehicle is the film strength of the oil and the onset of thermal breakdown – and of course the weight.
I was curious what you have to say on the matter. Thanks for the great content and advice.
Cheers,
Cameron
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Hi Cameron,
I’m glad to read that you find my Blog’s Engineering Information worthy of following it and using it for reference.
You and your Colleague both made some good points.
Here are some of the primary reasons why “synthetic” motor oils are typically superior to conventional motor oils:
– Better cold flow even for the same viscosity rating.
– Viscosity Improvers/Modifiers are typically NOT needed. So, with no Viscosity Improvers/Modifiers to degrade, it can maintain its viscosity rating longer.
– It can typically withstand higher temperatures before the onset of thermal breakdown.
– It typically forms less deposits.
– It has better natural cleaning properties.
But, a motor oil’s wear protection capability (film strength) is NOT determined by the base oil as is often claimed. It is determined by the factory’s additive package, which includes the extreme pressure, anti-wear components.
Therefore, some of the better “conventional” motor oils actually provide more wear protection than some synthetic oils. Because some synthetic oils do NOT perform well.
Some reasons why “conventional” oils may be preferred over synthetic oils:
– Lower price.
– Less oil consumption and/or leakage.
– Won’t bleed out of hydraulic lifters in engines that are sitting for a long time, which prevents lifter clicking when they are finally started up again.
NOTE: Synthetic motor oils do NOT allow for longer oil change intervals. Because proper, reasonable oil change intervals are determined by contaminated and diluted oil. Not by the base oil, not by the oil being worn out, and not by the additive package being depleted. See my Tech Article #25 on “Recommended Oil Change Intervals” for all the details.
Take care,
540 RAT
Hey 540 RAT,
I’ve done a lot of research online regarding oils for my dirt track car and have come across pieces of your blog on many different forums and finally found the actual forum.
I’ve done reading in a lot of different areas within the blog, but the one that interests me the most is the rankings (of course). I found that the oil I am using, Torco TR1 ranks wayyyy down on the list and I’m quite concerned since this is a 6800 RPM 450HP Chevy 350 with hydraulic flat tappet cam. It takes a lot of abuse and has even survived a rear diff failure which resulted in the motor turning 8100 when it failed coming off the corner at WOT.
My engine builder strays away from anything that is synthetic in these engines for the concerns that you’ve listed in your blog. I am thinking of making the switch to the Lucas Oil racing oil, but already have some Torco oil remaining to go through.
I am curious though if Torco has made their oils better based on this blog since your tests of it are now 10 years old. I would like to see you revisit some of these tests that have older test dates since the blending could have changed, especially the Torco TR1 20w-50, Valvoline VR1 20w-50, and the Maxima conventional racing oil in the same weight since that is what my engine builder sells.
I’ve seen your recommendations on the 5w-30 with high volume pump, but that isn’t an option right now. I will definitely be showing this blog to my engine builder. I’m not sure if I have a high volume pump, but I know 20w-50 is necessary at this time for pressures on a season and a half old engine.
I mentioned above about the rear diff failure… we run direct drive transmissions and control our speed with the rear gear, which is a 9” Ford. I’m curious what your thoughts on best oil for that is as well. I see you mainly discuss engine oils. Gear failures are expensive and race-costing.
I saw where you reviewed a few GL5, but Currie recommends a GL6 oil. Sadly, there are very few options of GL6 oils these days. I am actually running Torcos GL6 as well I’m a 85w-140 which is recommended by Currie for racing applications.
I’m curious if the more available GL5 gear oils you’ve tested are just as good or worse/better. From my research, the 9” Ford rear ends have a higher pinion offset which is harder on oils. We are also running very high gear ratios in these cars, 6.00 and 6.33 so that adds to the heat and stress on the oil.
I would like to see your test on some different conventional gear oils like the Torco RGO 85w-140, Currie’s racing gear oil 85w-140, and some parts store/Walmart available 85w-140 conventionals. Currie and most other manufacturers recommend straying away from synthetic in these 9” rear ends.
Thanks for all the research you’ve done and will continue to do. I look forward to keeping up with this in the future and sharing it with everyone I think would benefit.
Thanks,
Zeke
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Hi Zeke,
Welcome to my Blog. It’s good to know that you are now among my thousands, and thousands, and thousands of readers from all over the world.
And thanks for planning to share my Blog with others. That’s great because it is important that car guys are aware of my Blog, which is THE ONLY source for FACTUAL Engineering Test Data, that EXACTLY MATCHES real world experience.
My Blog is now closely approaching 1 MILLION VIEWS, which is quite an accomplishment for a “Text Only” Blog. On-Line videos are the sites that typically rack up a massive number of views. Because most people have too short an attention span to read a lot of text.
I do NOT have any concerns about using synthetic motor oil, or synthetic gear oil. Perhaps you misunderstood something you read here.
I run Synthetic motor oil in ALL of my own vehicles, from stock to High Performance, including an old-school, traditional flat tappet small block Chevy.
Your engine builder sounds like an old-school guy, who has a misguided opinion about synthetic motor oil. Perhaps after reading this response and more of the body of my Blog, he will see the light so to speak, about all the benefits of “thinner synthetic” motor oil vs “thicker conventional” motor oil.
If you had a high volume oil pump like all traditional American V-8’s should, and if your engine clearances are NOT larger than really necessary, 5W30 Quaker State Full Synthetic, API SP motor oil, with its friction reducers and less viscous drag, would make your Race Car measurably FASTER than it is now while using overly thick conventional 20W50. 5W30 Quaker State Full Synthetic, API SP motor oil is being used by flat tappet Drag Racers with GREAT success.
Overly thick motor oil, especially conventional oil, such as 20W50 is a terrible choice for any engine, and is an especially bad choice for Race Engines, because:
– Overly thick oil causes more viscous drag, reducing performance/acceleration, and reducing fuel economy.
– Overly thick oil viscosity flows slower through an engine, reducing lubrication, reducing cooling capability, and drives up oil temperature.
– Overly thick oil causes more air bubbles/foaming in the oil, which compromises a motor oil’s engine protection. An engine needs “liquid” oil, NOT “air filled foamy” oil.
Synthetic motor oil is THE BEST choice for “Most” engines, and ESPECIALLY for Race Engines. Though like anything else, there are a couple of exceptions.
Here are some of the primary reasons why “synthetic” motor oils are typically SUPERIOR to conventional motor oils:
– Better cold flow even for the same viscosity rating.
– Viscosity Improvers/Modifiers are typically NOT needed. So, with no Viscosity Improvers/Modifiers to degrade, it can maintain its viscosity rating longer.
– It can typically withstand higher temperatures before the onset of thermal breakdown, which is particularly important for Race Engines.
– It typically forms less deposits.
– It has better natural cleaning properties.
But, a motor oil’s wear protection capability is NOT determined by the base oil as is often claimed. And it is NOT determined by viscosity. In other words, thicker motor oil does NOT provide better wear protection. Your engine builder needs to understand this.
A motor oil’s wear protection capability is determined ONLY by the factory’s additive package, which includes the extreme pressure, anti-wear components.
Therefore, some of the better “conventional” motor oils can actually provide better wear protection than some synthetic oils. Because some synthetic oils do NOT perform well. It just depends on the oil in question.
Some reasons why “conventional” oils may be preferred over synthetic oils:
– Lower price.
– Less oil consumption and/or leakage.
– Won’t bleed out of hydraulic lifters in engines that are sitting for a long time, which prevents lifter clicking when they are finally started up again.
NOTE: Synthetic motor oils do NOT allow for longer oil change intervals. Because proper, reasonable oil change intervals are determined by contaminated and diluted oil. Not by the base oil, not by the oil being worn out, and not by the additive package being depleted. See my Tech Article #25 on “Recommended Oil Change Intervals” for all the details. But, of course that is primarily for street vehicles, rather than race engines that get an oil change as part of on-going maintenance.
You have been playing Russian Roulette with your engine by using EXTREMELY poor performing Torco TR1 motor oil, which is one of the WORST performing motor oils on the market.
You could not have selected an oil that was much worse. Your situation is like an old guy who has chain smoked for 50 years, but still has not died from lung cancer. Nothing is absolute. But, you need to switch to a better oil ASAP.
You do NOT need a so-called Racing Oil, because most Racing Oils are poor performers. You need a High psi, Highly Ranked motor oil from my Wear Protection Ranking List.
If you must use an XW50 motor oil, I recommend that you use the EXCELLENT, yes synthetic, 10W50 Amsoil Dirt Motorcycle Oil. It was the NUMBER 1 ranked thick oil in my Tech Article #69 on Thick Oil for air-cooled engines. And it also has impressive thermal breakdown resistance, which would serve your Race Engine very well.
Performing my Engineering Torture Test on motor oil, requires a huge effort, takes a huge amount of time, and consumes a lot of money. So, I have to be selective on which oils I test.
And my Engineering Blog is all about what is BEST for our needs. So, I typically try to test oils that would have the most interest and the most value, to the most people. Therefore, I have NO plans for any future testing of conventional motor oils.
As for differential gear oil, I do have Engineering Test Data on which gear oil is THE BEST GEAR OIL you should be using.
But first, keep in mind that equipment manufacturers, such as cam Companies, and differential Companies, are utterly unqualified to say what oil you should be using. They have NO IDEA what they are talking about. So, ignore anything they say about lubricating oils.
THE BEST GEAR OIL you should be using, is Amsoil 75W-140 Severe Gear, Extreme Pressure Synthetic Gear Lube. It is BY FAR, the NUMBER 1 ranked gear oil in my Tech Article #55 on Gear Oil/Transmission Oil.
My final overall recommendation, is that you and your engine builder should get off of the outdated and obsolete, last Century, “conventional” lube mindset.
Because you could greatly benefit from the 21st Century “synthetic” lube formulations that are vastly SUPERIOR to the older “conventional” lubes.
Take care,
540 RAT