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540 RAT responds to Questions/Comments from Readers of this Blog.
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540 RAT responds to Questions/Comments from Readers of this Blog.
540 RAT - Tech Facts, NOT Myths 
Hi 540 RAT,
I just want to start off by saying thank you very, very much for your willingness to test Prolong. I appreciate it more than I can say. As an average Joe, I would never ever have known if what I was using was actually any good or if I was actually doing damage to my engines. Up till now, all I had to rely on was advertising hype.
You are doing us all a great service and I thank you again for that. I am very excited to tell my dad and friends about your test results. Everyone I know is now referring to your list. Thanks again for the amazing, professional and selfless work that you do. Have a great week and I wish you all the best with the testing!
From Pat
Hi 540 RAT,
Thank you for the always good advice. I understand what you mean about also needing to take other factors into consideration when choosing an oil. I tend to ignore everything else except the wear protection aspect and good wear-protection would end up being rather pointless if chemical-corrosion is taking place at an accelerated rate. I’ll remind my family/friends of this.
Once again, thanks for everything, it’s always a pleasure visiting your page for updates! Keep well!
From Pat
Hi 540 RAT,
Thanks so much for what you are doing. As an oil fanatic, I love following your post. Keep up the good work!!! Randy Laws
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Hi Randy,
Thanks for the kind words. I really appreciate it.
540 RAT
I didnt see any non petroleum based oils. Would it be possible for you to test Motul 300v and Fuch’s pro race oils? I use motul 300v with a bit of ZDDP added to that. (im reconsidering now) I also run Pennzoil ultra Euro in my BMW and you tested just the Ultra version. I would be glad to send you samples of each of these if you would be so kind as to do the testing. Thanks!
**************************
Hi Jc,
Good to hear from you. Because of other commitments, I’m not accepting any oil for additional testing at this time, plus I already have some other oils in line waiting for testing. If you’d like, you can check back with me around June or July, to see if I’m able to accept any addtional oil for testing at that time.
Thanks for your interest,
540 RAT
*******************
Jc,
Just to catch you up. I got a bottle of Ester Core Motul 300V for testing when I can get back to that. Hopefully I can get to it within the next couple of months or so. The other oils you mentioned above, you’d need to send me when the time comes. Where are you located?
540 RAT
3-31-14
Will do Rat! I heard that motul has changed their 300v formula. what they now call “ester core” which, as an engineer, I take as a cheaper replacement for an old formula. Id Def be interested in your test results. Feel free to post on here if you get free, and ill check back in with you as well!! Best regards!
=================
Hi Jc,
The test data on Motul 300V is now posted in my Blog. Take a look.
Thanks for getting in touch,
540 RAT
6-15-14
Thank very much for doing this testing and publicizing your findings. I do have a nagging question regarding breaking in a newly overhauled flat tappet motor. Conventional thinking is to use an oil with not a high wear rating so the parts bed in, the rings seat, etc. Urban legend? I notice that the Oil Extreme Motor oil is shipped with a bottle of the Oil Extreme Concentrate when you order it from the company. However adding the concentrate to the Oil Extreme Motor Oil doesn’t really help and in some cases reduces the wear rating. Why include the concentrate?
===========================
Hi Louie,
It’s good to hear from you. The need for a low wear protection break-in oil is indeed an urban legend with no basis in fact. You CANNOT prevent an engine from breaking-in just fine, no matter what you do and no matter what oil you run, regardless of what anyone may tell you. To see more details on all this, see my article on Break-In oils here:
http://speedtalk.com/forum/index.php?sid=05c5aa32e6ddd77c5c1eedf8378c9322
Click on “Opinion Columns” at the very top of that link’s page and scroll down to my article titled, “Break-In Oils – Do we really need them?” Also be sure to click where it says “Read more” where it seems to end. Because it continues on much further.
The 5W30 Oil Extreme Motor Oil, API SM that I tested, is the highest ranked oil I’ve ever tested so far, for oils just as they come out of the bottle. It is already optimized as is. Use it that way, because adding Oil Extreme Concentrate to it, only reduces its wear protection capability. The included sample of OIl Extreme Concentrate should only be added to oils that actually need it. They include it as a courtesy.
Feel free to contact me if you have additional questions.
540 RAT
4-7-14
Hi 540 RAT! I’ve just been reading about a anti-friction oil treatment called Tribodyn. It is claimed that the product can ‘carry loads up to 350,000psi’. The company that manufactures Tribodyn is based in Kentucky, it would be great if you could test one of their products sometime in the future! From Pat
================
Hi Pat,
I don’t plan on testing any additional after market oil additives, because that gives people the idea that I recommend after market additives, which I do not. I recommend that people choose a good performing oil in the first place. And use it just as it comes out of the bottle with no after market additives at all. Good oils do not need any help.
540 RAT
hi – i found your article incredibly eye opening.
Iwant to point out that there are 2 aspects to classic car owners – cam break in and general running. Ive read all car companies use excessive zinc during break in (esp for flat tappet cams). Could you recommend a method / oil or give some feedback? Most hot rodders believe a zinc level of around 1000-1400 is the safe margin for most street applications.
I think i speak on behalf alot of enthusiasts who would be REALLY glad to hear some PROFESSIONAL feedback regarding this issue. Esp since I wiped a lobe after following break in procedures, however I was advised to just leave the zinc additive in, and ran it for about 2500 miles before the lobe was found to be gone.
Much appreciated – I have printed and saved your article on my google drive never to be lost!
Will the Quaker defy oil be sufficient? Or the mobile1 15-50 which boasts a 1300 zinc level, bear in mind this is for break in specifically, not prolonged use for which I will be undoubtedly be choosing something from your list.
Much thanks
PS: I like the addon about the rotella T, I have had confirmations the triple power with an additive is fine for break in –
==============
Hello there, good to hear from you.
If you read my entire Oil Testing Blog carefully, and let it sink in as you go, you would know that zinc level alone does not determine an oil’s wear protection capability. That is strictly an old wives tale that has no merit at all, and has been debunked over and over again. My recommendation is that you completely put out of your mind, any concern for how much zinc is present in any given oil. All you have to do is choose a highly ranked oil, high zinc or not, from my Wear Protection Ranking list, use it just as it comes out of the bottle, with NO aftermarket additives, and you will be fine for normal operation and break-in. Flat tappet lobes typically get wiped because the high zinc oils or oils with zinc additives do NOT provide the wear protection people think they do. And the failure you experienced is exactly in-line with what I have seen many times. You were given terrible advice about what oil to use. Do NOT follow that advice again, or you will very likely have another failure.
Countless flat tappet owners use ordinary modern low zinc oil without any problem at all. To put your mind at ease, choose an oil that has a psi value from the Outstanding Wear Protection category or from the Incredible Wear Protection Category, in my Ranking List. Doing that would provide you with the best wear protection on the market, and you don’t even have to follow any particular break-in procedure. If you use a proper oil that truly provides excellent wear protection, then just break the engine in sensibly like you might with a brand new car. Nothing special is required, no matter what anyone else tells you.
People or Companies who say you need high zinc levels for flat tappet engines in general, and for break-in in particular, are either selling a high zinc oil or additive, or simply do NOT know what they are talking about, even if they mean well. The only thing that actually does matter, is what the psi value is in my Ranking List. The higher the psi value, the better the wear protection.
If you follow my recommendation, you will never have to worry about flat tappet engine oil again.
Thanks for getting in touch,
540 RAT
7-4-14
Hi – much appreciate your article, hard work and response. Ill give this a try then on my new cam and hold thumbs! Ill report back after a few months and hope all goes well – perhaps the quaker defy, locally available to me. Sorry to ask a car question – but do u have any instructions regarding the break in of the flat tappet cam?
================
Hello again,
As I said below, if you use a proper oil that truly provides excellent wear protection, such as oils that are highly ranked on my Wear Protection Ranking List, then just Break-In any flat tappet engine sensibly like you might with any brand new car. No special Break-In Procedure is required for flat tappet engines, no matter what anyone else tells you, as long as you chose a good oil from my list. The whole reason people tried to come up with involved Break-In Procedures for flat tappet engines, is because of all the wiped flat tappet lobes, which were really because of poorly chosen high zinc oils. And adding aftermarket zinc additives to those high zinc oils only further reduced their wear protection capability. People have been brain-washed to believe high zinc oils are all you need for flat tappet lobe protection. But, as you experienced, that thinking is completely wrong. Follow my advice about choosing a highly ranked oil from my list and you will be fine.
A word about Quaker State Defy. It is probably OK for you to use, but it is really intended for old engines with a lot of miles on them. And because of that, it includes “seal swell” like all oils intended for high mileage engines. Personally, I would not use that oil because of that, unless it was for an old engine. Quaker State made a fairly big deal of advertising that the oil had seal swell in it, when it first came out. But, I do not follow that oil, so I don’t know if they still advertise that or not. Read the bottle before you buy it.
And keep in mind, like I said below, get it out of your mind that you need high levels of zinc in your oil, because you do not. There are many modern low zinc oils that are ranked higher than Quaker State Defy, that of course do not have seal swell in them. Choosing one of those oils would be better. I have one buddy who runs a 500 HP solid lifter, flat tappet 383 cubic inch small block Chevy engine in his ’69 Corvette. He has run that engine with modern low zinc Castrol 5W30 GTX, and later with modern low zinc 5W30 Mobil 1. He has run that engine daily (it is his only car), for 5 or 6 years now, and has never ever had any lobe or lifter problems. So, that can work for you too.
Take care,
540 RAT
7-6-14
Most cam companies void your warranty without a zinc additive during break in fyi :p
==============
You are probably right about that. But, as I said, people in general such as Hot Rodders, Racers, Engine Builders, as well as people at Cam Companies, have been brain-washed over the years to believe high zinc oils are all you need for flat tappet lobe protection. But, as you experienced, that thinking is COMPLETELY wrong, which proves my point about high zinc oils not providing reliable protection. Did they warranty your cam failure? And if they did, did that make you feel any better, since you still had a failed engine? Your experience shows that using a zinc additive is totally wrong. And the opposite of that, is what I’ve been telling you about choosing an oil from my Ranking List, and NOT just choosing an oil by how much zinc it has. My Engineering test data proves Cam Companies are wrong about needing high zinc oils. Do yourself a favor and ignore what they tell you about having to use high zinc oils, or you will very likely have another failure. Because only certain high zinc oils are good, while other high zinc oils are not. Even some high zinc oils sold by Cam Companies themselves, are no good. And nearly all high zinc Break-In oils are terrible in terms of Wear Protection capability. The only way to tell which oils are good, and which oils are not, is to look at my Ranking List.
540 RAT
7-6-14
Ive pretty much resigned the zinc “argument” and will follow your advice, esp since a reputable engine builder recently failed 4 cams in a row following these myths – thanks!!
I was wondering if you could test more conventional 5w30, 10w30, 30w hd30 motor oils under the brands of Pennzoil, resolute, Castrol and valvoline and quakerstate. Something economical by the quart or quart case yet still providing reasonable protection for small engines like a tecumseh hm100 flathead engine running at 3600 rpm with a 25 to 50 hour oil change interval attached to a portable generator like a Coleman powermate maxa 5000 ER
For the resolute I can send some to you if you can not get it. Thanks.
======================
Hi Joe,
Thanks for getting in touch. I already have some good economical oils that fit that description on my Wear Protection Ranking List. But, if you can’t find the info you are looking for, then you could send me the oil you’d like to have tested. But, you’d have to be willing to wait perhaps a couple of months for me to get to your testing. Because I have a number of oils already in line ahead of yours for testing, plus I have a lot of other commitments that take up the majority of my time.
If you really want to send me oil for testing, let me know, and I’ll provide instructions on how to do that.
Take care,
540 RAT
9-24-14
How big of an oil sample do you need to perform a test?
=======================
Hi again Joe,
For each test, I need one brand new unopened quart or liter bottle, whichever way they are normally available. For oil shipped to me for testing, most folks send only one bottle of one oil for testing. But, sending two bottles of different oils is the maximum number of oils I can accept at one time.
540 RAT
9-29-14
540 RAT, thanks for sharing such great information! I have three questions for you…
You tested the Brad Penn Grade 1 (was #103 , now #6 with additive) and Lucas Hot Rod & Classic Hi-Performance Oil conventional (was #122 ,now #11 with additive) with the Oil Extreme additive, but you did not test Quaker State Defy 10W-30 with the Oil Extreme concentrate.
1) Is that because it has a PSI over 80,000 and there would be no additional benefit to add this additive?
If I understand the list correctly, the highest ranked street-use 10W-30 oil WITHOUT an additive is Valvoline VR1 Conventional Racing Oil. The highest WITH an additive is #6 “Oil Extreme concentrate” added to 10W30 Brad Penn, Penn Grade 1 semi-synthetic
2) If I wanted to but the best street-use oil for wear protection, would I choose Valvoline VR1 Conventional Racing Oil and add Oil Extreme to it or just Brad Penn oil with Oil Extreme? I guess what I’m asking is that, can I assume that the VR1 will be a higher rating than the Brad Penn oil once the additive is added?
3) The Valvoline VR1 Racing oil has a recommendation for engines burning gasoline & full or partial alcohol fuels. Is it best to stay away from this oil if I am only running gasoline?
Thank you for your help!!!
=================
Hi Eric,
Answer 1 – At 90,226 psi and being in the OUTSTANDING wear protection category, 10W30 Quaker State Defy, API SL semi-synthetic does not need any additional help. It is always best to choose a highly ranked oil in the first place, so that it does not need any additional help from an additive. I did not test Quaker State Defy with Oil Extreme Concentrate added to it because I simply don’t have the time to test every single oil with the additive. And as I stated in my Blog, oils tested with over 80,000 psi did not typically see a benefit by adding Oil Extreme Concentrate. So, I would not expect to see any benefit here either. In addition to that, when Quaker State Defy first came out, it advertised being for high mileage vehicles, and included seal swell. So, it would not be my first choice for a high performance vehicle.
Comment – the highest ranked oil Racing or otherwise WITHOUT an additive is 5W30 Motul 300V Ester Core 4T Racing Oil. And 5W30 is preferable to 10W30 because of its better cold flow capability, if an oil is available as a 5W30.
The highest ranked oil Racing or otherwise WITH an additive is Prolong Engine Treatment added to 5W30 Pennzoil Ultra, API SN synthetic, which is of course ranked number 1.
Answer 2 – No you cannot assume that. As I said above, it is always best to choose a highly ranked oil in the first place, so that it does not need any additional help from an additive. So, for the top ranked oils, if money is not an issue, I’d suggest using 5W30 Motul 300V Ester Core 4T Racing Oil, synthetic. If money is an issue, I’d suggest using 5W30 Oil Extreme “Motor Oil”, API SM synthetic or 5W30 Mobil 1, API SN synthetic. None of these oils need additives put in. You would use them straight out of the bottle.
Answer 3 – You do not need to stay away from this oil. It is fine if you are only running gasoline.
Thanks for your interest,
540 RAT
10-10-14
Hello Rat,
Would you be able to test Liqui-Moly Leichtlauf High Tech 5W40? I’ll send a bottle if you provide the address for shipping.
The company is trying to convince me to buy it in bulk and while the price and availability is great, I want to know that I am supplying my customers with a really good oil for their older Japanese engines. They say it is a hydro-crack synthetic, and while the rep was trying to use this as a selling feature I have read that it really just means its like plain old group III oil? Liqui-Moly is happy to supply me with oil test data but they don’t understand what I mean by film strength, is there another term I should use?
email is fourfunctionautosport at gmail.com
Thank you
================
Hi Calle,
Good to hear from you. Motor Oil “film strength” is the correct term to use. And if the folks at that Company don’t understand that term, then they really shouldn’t be in the motor oil business if you ask me. Because that is the most important aspect of any motor oil. Everything else a motor oil does for your engine, comes AFTER that.
Motor oil film strength is what actually protects against wear, since it is last line of defense against metal to metal contact and the resulting wear or damage. When motor oil is thicker than a mere film, it is liquid oil. And liquids are incompressible, thus there can be no metal to metal contact, and no wear or damage can result. So, every motor oil on the market provides the same wear protection when in liquid form. The difference between oils is when they get down to only a thin film. The better an oil’s film strength capability, the better the wear protection.
I’m very busy right now with other commitments, so I’m generally trying not to accept any more oil for testing at this time. However, if you only wanted to send me one brand new unopened quart of that oil, and were willing to wait a month or more for the results, then you could send it to me now, if you’d like. Let me know right here if you are still interested in sending it, and I’ll post shipping directions here as well. I don’t use my personal email for this worldwide Blog. I’m sure you can understand that.
Thanks for getting in touch,
540 RAT
10-16-14
Address please and thank you
============
Here you go Calle,
You didn’t respond to the directions I provided for sending me oil to test, so I came back and deleted it.
Thanks for your interest,
540 RAT
10-29-14
I can’t beleive you took soooo much of your time to do such a nice thing for all people concerned!!!!!!! You must be a very good person! I could only tell how many hours you had invested. It sure gave me a new look at oils! I’m 62yrs. old and have been building engines for over 40yrs. proffesionally and only had one cam go bad and the cam grinder said it was to do with the hardening on the cam (it was a regrind) I always use one extra qt. of 30 wt. non-det. oil and a bottle of E.O.S. from Chevrolet. After looking at your site I had a couple questions. One being that Chevrolet and other manufactures fill their crankcases with synthetic oils from the get go. How do they get away with that and still get perfect ring seal with no break-in period??? Can I use synthetic oil on a fresh 700HP sbc on the street with no brake-in period with a solid roller? And one oil you didn’t test was Shaffer, they have it in different wts. and make ups. They say their oil is “The Best” bar none. I’m always trying to get every last h.p. I can and protection. Would it be possible for you to test this oil? And what about that moly additive to free up that 8-11 h.p.? Is that true and is that in your opinion the best add. to gain h.p.? What about Energy Release and Synergyn??? I know you’re a very busy man, but I would REALLY APPRECIATE it you could take the time to check these out and let me know. I would even pay you just to find out these facts! It would really mean a lot to me. Thanks, Dan from Modesto, Ca.
******************
Hi Dan,
It’s nice to hear from you.
Regarding manufacturers using synthetic oil from the get go with no break-in issues, that is perfectly fine as we have seen for years. They are not getting away with anything. Because there is no reason not to use synthetic from the get go if that is what you want to run. No matter what oil you use, you CANNOT STOP break-in, no matter what cars guys say on car Forums and other places on the Internet. And that is why the oil you break an engine in with simply does not matter. You can break-in your engines with synthetic oil without concern. If there is ever a problem, it is with the engine build or the parts used, NOT the oil. I wrote an article about break-in oil that you can find by clicking on the link at the very beginning of my Blog.
I’d be happy to perform motor oil “Wear Testing” on Shaffer that you send me, but if you read the bottom of my Oil Testing Blog about viscosity selection, you know that in most cases, you should never use an oil thicker than a multi-viscosity type 30wt, such as 5W30 or 10W30. So, it would be in everyone’s best interest that you not send me oil thicker than that.
As for Shaffer claiming that their oil is “The Best Bar None”, we’ll have to see about that. Maybe it is, but from my experience, most of the smaller name oils boast big claims that never prove to be true. We can test it to see how good it really is, but based on past experience, I wouldn’t hold my breath if I were you. Because you may be disappointed. Motor Oil performance claims are among the worst false advertising I’ve ever seen, especially from the smaller Oil Companies.
If you’ve read my entire Blog from start to finish, you know that in spite of testing some motor oil additives, I do not generally recommend using them. The best thing to do is choose an oil that ranks high on my list right off the bat, and use it just as it comes right out of the bottle with NO aftermarket additives. I have no plans to test any more aftermarket additives, since it is really nothing more than a waste of my time. And using aftermarket additives is just wasting money that does not need to be wasted. Using poor performing motor oils, then putting aftermarket additives in them in an attempt to make them better, simply makes no sense when many oils are excellent right out of the bottle. Oils that test well all by themselves, DO NOT need any help.
As for making HP, the only way to know what oils or even what aftermarket additives (if you absolutely have your heart set on using them) may be better than others, you’d have to do your own dyno testing to know for sure. My testing only tests for wear protection, NOT for friction reduction and possible HP increases. Wear protection and HP differences are two entirely different things when it comes to motor oil. If you do a bunch of back to back dyno testing on HP differences, please let me know what your results were.
You didn’t respond to the directions I provided for sending me oil to test, so I came back and deleted it.
Thanks for your interest,
540 RAT
10-29-14
I have just found your oil testing article and enjoyed reading it very much. It is so informative and I’d like to thank you for taking on such a big job. Whilst plain bearing engines are understandable the focus of oil technology, do you think I can apply the results to ball or roller bearing crankshaft engined motorcycles where the oil wedge hydraulic performance I would imagine isn’t as important?
Rgds,
Don
==========
Hi Don,
It’s good to hear from you. The oil wedge is of course liquid oil, and if you read my whole Oil Testing Blog carefully, you know that liquid oil is incompressible. So, “ANY” oil in liquid incompressible form, no matter how much it costs or who makes it, provides the same wear protection. That is because there can be no metal to metal contact when the oil keeps parts from contacting each other, thus no wear or damage can take place.
That is why my Oil Test Data is so important. My test data provides information at the oil film strength level, where every oil “IS” different. The only thing that separates one oil from another, in terms of wear protection, is the load carrying capacity of its film strength. That being the case, my test data will provide very useful information for your motorcycle engines. The higher the posted psi value, the better the wear protection when an oil is down to a mere film. And that is what is critically important, since an oil’s film strength has to be penetrated in order for metal to metal contact to take place, with wear and/or damage to follow.
Take care,
540 RAT
10-30-14
Hello there! Took a while to read all your publications but I think I read it all (especially about breaking-in flat tappet engine). You seem like the most knowledgeable oil guy I have heard about. Very interesting to read you! My question is the following: If break-in oil is not necessary, and if break-in procedure is not usefull, if the quality of the oil used is the only real important factor, then, why would some cam lobes go bad, and some don’t? Why does some engine break-in correctly while other go bad? What is the technique one should adopt? and lastly, why should that oil be changed after like 20-30 minutes of engine run time?
thanks for everything!
g.b.
========
Hi Guillaume, nice to hear from you. And thank you for the kind words.
Some cam lobes go bad while others do not, typically because of one of two reasons. One is that the cam/lifter material may not be up to spec, and can thus fail. The other is that people use poor performing oil even though they “think” they are using good oil. High zinc oils are popular among people who “think” they know what they are doing.
Problem is, if they choose an oil based only on how much zinc it has in it, they do not really know what they are doing. My testing has shown time and time again, that an oil having a high zinc level is absolutely no guarantee of adequate wear protection. Some high zinc oils provide good wear protection, but other high zinc oils do not. Only the oil film strength load carrying capacity testing I perform, will tell us how good an oil is regarding wear protection.
And to make matters worse, a lot of people put zinc additives in their oils for break-in. And what they don’t know is that actually reduces and oil’s wear protection capability, making it worse than it was to begin with, which is just the opposite of what they thought. And those who use so-called Break-In oils are also making bad choices. Because almost always, Break-in oils are formulated to “allow” wear, not “prevent” wear. Again, just the opposite of what users think they are getting.
So, other than occasional bad cam/lifter material, most cam/lifter failures are typically from people using the wrong oil, even if they think they are selecting a good oil or oil and additive combo.
If you choose an oil that ranks highly on my Wear Protection Ranking List for all your needs, you can’t go wrong. Personally, I like to choose oils that provide 90,000 psi or higher, which are in the OUTSTANDING or INCREDIBLE wear protection categories.
Break-in technique is really not critical like many people think. Just run it initially however you feel comfortable, and then run as you intend to use it after that. Some folks like to change oil in a brand new engine after 20-30 minutes of run time, because of all the microscopic debris generated during initial break-in. The oil filter should be filtering all that out, so immediate oil changes are not absolutely critical either. However, it does make many people feel better, and there is nothing wrong with changing oil early.
I hope this helps,
540 RAT
11-3-14
Hello 540 RAT! Thanks for your long and complete answer! Just to confirm I heard you right, according to what you just said, cam failing because of bad break-in doesn’t really exist? That cam would have failed sooner or later because of oil quality? Also, the need for the parts to ”wear” together during break-in would be a myth? I’m just about to change the cam of my 327 engine which had a cam failed in the first few hours of driving and I want to avoid any further problems. I am thinking of using Valvoline vr1, conventional, even though it has a little more zinc than one should need.
thanks again!!
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Hello again Guillaume,
To clarify, cam failure because of bad break-in technique doesn’t really exist. People who don’t understand what they are doing, just blame break-in procedures when a failure happens while they are using their beloved high zinc oils, that were chosen only because of a high level of zinc in the oil. If they use a high zinc oil that provides poor wear protection in my testing, then they should not be surprised if they suffer a cam failure, no matter what break-in procedure they use.
As my testing has proven, some high zinc oils provide good wear protection, while other high zinc oils do not. That is why my test data is the only valid information to reference, regarding what oils provide good wear protection and what oils do not.
Parts seating-in or wearing-in together is not a myth at all. Parts break-in will take place no matter what anyone does, and no matter what oil is used. No man can stop break-in even if he wants to. Because microscopic high points will wear down until there is enough material in contact to carry the load involved.
As for your 327, if you select any oil from my wear protection ranking list with say over 90,000 psi capability, you will be fine, assuming your cam/lifters are not made of defective material and you are not suffering valve spring coil bind. Bad material is not that likely. And you need to make sure your valve springs are not reaching coil bind. After that just choose a good oil and don’t worry about it any further.
For what it’s worth, a buddy of mine built a 500HP flat tappet 383 small block Chevy, and he broke it in with and ran after that, 5W30 Castrol GTX, API SN, and never had any cam/lifter problems at all. Many other people have done the same type of thing using modern low zinc oils.
Take care,
540 RAT
11-4-14
Hello 540 RAT,
Thanks for all your research and sharing it with us.
My question is about 0W-20 synthetics. I noticed that most of the oil tested was 5W-30 etc but not many 20W oils. The highest rated 0W-20 was Mobil 1 advanced fuel economy rated #32. One question is if a 5W-30 oil in a particular brand is rated high will their 0W-20 provide the same wear protection as the heavier weight oil? Does wear protection diminish with the lighter weight 0W-20 oils?
Our 2015 Nissan Altima 2.5L requires 0W-20 API SN synthetic oil so I’d like to see who makes the best 0W-20 for wear protection. 5W-30 is the secondary recommendation.
I noticed some of the top rated oil is no longer available. Do you update your list to the current oils available to the consumer?
Thanks for your great work!
Brad
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Hi Brad,
Good to hear from you. Thanks for the kind words. No, just because a particular brand is rated high at one viscosity, you cannot count on another viscosity of the same brand or line of oil to provide the same wear protection. I have seen where Oil Companies make their 5W30 oils the best, but other viscosities of the same line of oil are nowhere near as good. From all the testing I’ve done, it is clear that viscosity alone does not determine an oil’s wear protection capability. So, you cannot say that protection will necessarily diminish with lighter weight 0W20 oils. It just depends on the additive package, which contains the extreme pressure anti-wear components, that the Oil Company chooses to use in any particular oil.
I have no plans to test any more 0W20 oils, so you might just want to use the 0W-20 Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy, that I have tested. That way you would know what you are getting. It produced 96,364 psi, which puts it in the OUTSTANDING wear protection category. It is an excellent oil that would serve you well.
No, I do not update my ranking list to only include the current oils available to consumers, nor do I include every single oil on the market. There are just too many oils on the market to keep up with all that.
Thanks for your interest,
540 RAT
540 RAT,
Thank you for your answer. I will not assume that someone’s 0W-20 is as good as their 5W-30. I agree that going with the Mobil 1 that you tested assures that I am using good oil with outstanding wear protection.
Your article is very interesting and informative, keep up the good work.
Thanks again,
Brad
Hello 540 rat,
thanks for doing all your oil tests.
Have you done any testing on engine assembly lubricants?
If you have could you please posts the results?
Have you considered doing any oil testing seminars?
Thanks again for all your testing.
Sincerely,
Erik
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Hi Eric,
Nice to hear from you. No, I have not done any testing on engine assembly lubricants. So, I have no data to post on that.
No, I have not considered doing any oil testing seminars. I don’t really feel it could add much to my Blog’s information which reaches thousands of people all over the world.
Thanks for getting in touch,
540 RAT
540 Rat,
First off, thank you very much for all your time and research! l assume that you know Valvoline has discontinued their “Not Street Legal” line of racing oil. According to the representative that I spoke with…many people were ignoring the “not street legal” label and making the assumption that there was a performance gain to be had (this occurred often enough that they decided to discontinue it altogether). With that being said, he told me I have two options:
1.) Use the VR1 that is readily available at the auto parts stores. He claimed that it offers very similar protection (this seems true according to your research), but it has more detergents than I would probably want in a drag race only application. He also added that the VR1’s contain very little moly as compared to the former “not street legal.”
2.) He claimed the better option for me would be to sign up for a teamvalvoline.com membership (mainly because they offer a 20W and also a 0Wt). They have some brand new racing only oils they have formulated through their sponsored teams in the NHRA, NASCAR etc… that will only be available directly from Valvoline.
You mentioned in your research that Red-Line and Lucas were better suited to “short-lived” racing motors (I assume that you mean categories where they are “tore-down” extremely often. With that being said, I am really interested in the new Valvoline products.
My questions are as follows:
1.) What have you learned about the moly included in most racing oils (it appears to be present in just about everything but the VR1).
2.) Do you have interest in testing their new racing oils (They claim that this new Pro-V series is the ultimate racing oil)? I am especially interested in the following:
NEW Pro-V Racing™ 0W-20
NEW Pro-V Racing™ EXP-140 (0 Wt)
NEW Pro-V Racing™ 0W-30
Note: They do have about 10 types ranging from Top-Fuel, to ATV.
3.) Since we are on the subject of Valvoline…you included Valvoline Premium Blue 15W40 in your wear test (for some reason all the values are TBD). Anyhow, is there a reason you left out the Valvoline Premium Blue Extreme (synthetic 5W40)?
Thank you for your time and hopefully you had a Merry Christmas!
Respectfully,
Shawn
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===================
Hi Shawn, it’s good to hear from you. Yes, I had heard that Valvoline had discontinued their “Not Street Legal” line of racing oil, though I have not spoken to the Valvoline folks directly.
The amount of detergent in the VR1 oils is no problem at all for racing or other uses, so don’t let that be your deciding factor regarding this oil.
When I mention that an oil is best suited for ‘short-lived” racing motors, it is because they have excessive zinc/phos which can damage an engine long-term, and/or they have too little detergent, and/or they have too little TBN, to be suitable for street driven or street/strip vehicles where you don’t want extended use of the oil to damage the engine, and you desire normal oil change intervals.
A Lab test of the component quantities would be needed on the new Valvoline racing oils to see how they stack-up in these areas.
Just so you are clear, my testing only tests motor oils for wear protection capability, but not for friction reduction/HP increase potential. Wear protection capability and friction reduction/HP increase potential, are two entirely different things. An oil may be good in one of those categories, but not good in the other. In my testing, I have not seen moly make much difference one way or the other, regarding wear protection capability.
If Valvoline claims their new Pro-V series of oils is the ultimate racing oil, it may be because of friction reduction/HP increase potential, though they may not do well regarding wear protection capability. So, my testing may not provide you with the information you are looking for, if friction reduction/HP increase potential is what you are really looking for. If that is really the information you are looking for, then you would have to perform careful back to back dyno or careful back to back track testing to gather that data.
I have tested 0W, 0W30 and 0W50 Mobil 1 Racing Oil for a NASCAR team, and all three of those oil performed very poorly regarding wear protection. The team had been having wear issues with those oils, and after my testing, they quit using them, no matter what their friction reduction/HP increase potentials were.
The new Valvoline racing oils are of course completely different oils, but that is the kind of thing you need to keep an eye out for. If you really have your heart set on getting wear protection capability data on those new Valvoline oils, you could send me some for testing, if you like. But, you’d need to be patient, because I have other commitments that take priority over additional oil testing. Though over the current Holiday break, I have tested a number of additional oils, while I had the chance to fit them into my schedule. I’ll add them to my ranking list when I get a chance. After the Holidays, I can only perform additional oil testing when I get the chance to fit it in my busy schedule.
As for Valvoline Premium Blue 15W40 Diesel oil in my wear protection ranking list, the only truly important value is the 70,869 psi value, which is there. The zinc, phos and moly values really don’t mean all that much, because they don’t tell us what the wear protection capability really is. Those values are more for curiosity than for something that really matters. When the values say TBD, it is because I did not send that oil to the Lab for component quantity testing, which is separate from my own wear protection capability testing.
As for the Valvoline Premium Blue Extreme (synthetic 5W40), I did not purposely leave it out for any reason, it just wasn’t sitting on the Auto Parts Store shelves, when I gathered the Diesel oil for testing.
I hope you have a great Holiday,
540 RAT
Hello 540! Thank you for such an informative and eye-opening article on oil and how it’s real-world performance can be vastly different from what the oil manufacturers want us to believe. I now feel far more knowlegable about what motor oil I put in my vehicles. Thank you again for all the great data in your article.
I have one question for you regarding what type of oil you recommend for old air cooled Porsche’s. I know you state in your article that, in general, no engine should require heaver viscosity oil than a 30wt multi-viscosity oil. However my confusion arises from the fact that Porsche recommends a minimum 10w-40 viscosity oil. Now, since I live in California and the car is driven in the summer with ambient temperatures regularly 90-degrees +, I am cautious with what oil goes in the car. Summer time oil temps on the freeway can get to 240-250 degrees fairly regularly. I used to think I was coveed by running Amsoil Z-Rod 20w-50, but now I am thinking I might be making the wrong choice. I am nervous about making a bad oil choice because 911 motors are VERY expensive to rebuild, so a poor choice on my part can be an expensive lesson for me.
Any input you can provide as to viscosity chpices and sythetic/conventional options/suggestions I should be considering would be GREATLY appreciated.
Thanks again for all you have done for us “oil geeks” out there. :-).
Todd
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===============
Hi Todd, thanks for the kind words. I’m glad you found my test data eye-opening and informative. Motor oil is probably the worst product I’ve ever seen for false advertising.
Yes, I can appreciate your dilemma over what oil is really the best for your expensive air cooled Porsche. I can only assume that the heavier viscosity recommended for your Porsche is based on old oils and old out-dated technology. As you saw in my Blog section on viscosity selection, running oils thicker than a 30wt multi-viscosity oil is almost never needed and almost never the best choice.
If I were in your shoes, here is what I’d do. I’d look first at my Blog section 3 – “Motor Oil Thermal Breakdown Test Data”. Select a few 30wt multi-viscosity oils that you would consider based on how high their onset of Thermal Breakdown is. Then I’d go back to my Blog section 1 – “Motor Oil Wear Protection Ranking List”. Then narrow down those few oils you chose, to a final oil to run, based on its wear protection capability. If you end up with an oil that can withstand a high level of heat, while at the same time providing excellent wear protection capability, you are good to go……….almost.
The only thing remaining is an actual test in your engine. And the test I have in mind, is just a simple oil pressure test with the new oil that is thinner than you have run in the past. As long as your new thinner oil maintains roughly the old rule of thumb oil pressure, which is 10 psi for every 1,000 rpm, you can’t go wrong. Assuming you don’t have huge bearing clearances, you are not likely to have oil pressure that is too low, even with the new thinner oil. If you are able to use a 30wt multi-viscosity oil, your engine will be far better lubricated than it ever was with thicker oils.
The only issue I have seen from going to thinner oil, is with traditional Detroit V-8’s that run standard volume oil pumps. In that case, they will sometimes run into low hot idle oil pressure with thinner oils. In those cases, switching to a high volume oil pump eliminates the low hot idle oil pressure condition. I’m not familiar with air cooled Porsche’s, so you will have to see how your oil pressure shakes out.
Let me know how it all works out.
Thanks for your interest,
540 RAT
As always, 540RAT, YOU ROCK!! I truly appreciate the time you have taken answering my questions. I will do exactly as you suggest by finding an oil that can withstand the heat but also provide the engine with the oiling capability it needs. I want to wait until spring time when it warms up a bit outside and see how my oil pressure holds up on a warm California day. Currently, with 20w-50 Amsoil synthetic, it will hold 3-3.5 bars of pressure (40-50 psi) when hot (220-230 degrees F) at roughly 3000 rpm on the freeway. So it will be interesting to see how a 5w-30 (like Chevron Supreme that you tested) will hold up. Do you have any estimates of how much of an oil pressure drop I ahould expect to see with the lighter weight oil? I will advise with my results. I look forward to letting you know what I find out.
I also wanted to thank you for shedding so much light on the differences (or lack thereof) between a good conventional vs. a good synthetic. Prior to reading your research, I was convinced that synthetic was the ONLY option for maximum engine protection. It is great to know that a relatively cheap and not highly touted conventional like Chevron Supreme can stand up to the best of the synthetics. I have a lot of cars, somy oil changes can get expensive when I use synthetic on all of them.
I really feel so much more knowledgable now about making the best choice for my cars when it comes to lubrication, thanks to you.
As a side note, do you run synthetics or conventionals in your own vehicles (just curious)?
Thanks,
Todd
Thanks Again,
Todd
====================
====================
Hi Todd,
Thanks again for the kind words. Not being familiar with bearing clearances or oil pump capacity in air cooled Porsches, I couldn’t really predict how much oil pressure drop you might see by switching to the thinner oil. You’ll just have to test it and see.
As for my own cars, I run conventional Castrol GTX or Chevron Supreme in my Old School Hotrods. But, in my new cars, I have to run current synthetics in order to meet all the specs they call for. So, I run Castrol Edge in the gold bottle in those cars.
Keep me posted on how things go.
Take care,
540 RAT
Hey Sir, like everyone else has said thanks for taking the time to make a great list and backing it with great information. I have kept up with this blog for a few years and I always share it with people when they have oil questions. I was curious if you would test some of this oil from PurÖL ? They are an American company and a few people I know race with it and was curious how it stands up.
=======================
Hi Michael, it’s nice to hear from you. I clicked on the link, and that oil sounds very interesting. However, this is the first I’ve heard of it. If you’d like to send me a 5W30 version of that oil for testing, I could work it in, between my other commitments, if you are not in a big hurry. Let me know, and if you would like to send it, I can provide directions on how to do that.
Thanks for getting in touch,
540 RAT 1-20-15
======================
Michael,
I never heard back from you about sending me PurOl for testing. But, I managed to get my hands on a bottle of 5W30 PurOl Elite Series oil for testing. The testing was completed, and now it has been added to the Section 1 – Motor Oil Wear Protection Ranking List.
Take care,
540 RAT
Sir,
I want to thank you for your efforts in these tests.
I want to ask a direct question about my particular engine.
I run a small block ford engine, 427 ci with a Solid roller camshaft.
1. Most of the High performance Lifter manufacturers Do not like synthetic oils.
WHY? Do you have an opinion?
2. Every time I switch from Rotella conventional oil to a Mobil 1 15/50 synthetic oil, Why do i lose 7-9 psi of oil pressure?
3. I currently have mobil 1 15/50 synthetic in my engine, and recently put a gopro in the car. I notice the oil pressure now is 42-48psi pretty much throughout the RPM range to 7400rpm. Previously I would make 55psi with the Rotella. Is this a concern? The engine is Fresh.
4. I was highly impressed with the Film strength of the Mobil 1 5/30 synthetic.
====================
Hi Harry,
Thanks for getting in touch. Here are my thoughts on your questions.
1.
I can’t speak for High Performance Lifter Manufacturers. You’d have to ask them why they do not like synthetic oils. But, I can tell you that Cam and Lifter manufacturers typically do not know what they are talking about when it comes to motor oil. They provide bad recommendations to their customers all the time. I see it on Forum discussions, and people contact me regularly about that with questions.
Personally, I suggest you ignore anything they tell you about what oil to run. Just because they make parts, does not make them motor oil experts. Do a little research on your own, and you will know more than they do. I consider my Oil Test Data Blog here, your best source for motor oil information. If you base your oil selection on the information here, you cannot go wrong.
I see no issue with running a good synthetic motor oil in your small block ford engine, 427 ci with a Solid roller camshaft.
2.
Oil pressure readings are simply a measurement of resistance to flow. If your oil pressure goes down only from changing the oil, that means the new oil is flowing more freely through the engine, and is not building up as much pressure because of flow resistance. It is not that surprising to see synthetic oils flow more freely than conventional oils, even though the 15/50 synthetic technically has a thicker viscosity than the conventional 15/40. Oil flow is more important than oil pressure. See Section 2 – Motor Oil Viscosity Selection, of this Blog for more details.
3.
Even though oil flow is more important than oil pressure, for lubrication and cooling, it is still best to maintain a reasonable oil pressure, to ensure adequate flow in all locations of the engine, under all operating conditions. The old rule of thumb “10 psi for every 1,000 rpm” is a reasonable reference to keep in mind, though it is not absolutely engraved in stone. Personally, I would not be comfortable running my own engine at 7400 rpm with only 42-48 psi. I think that is just too low to be absolutely sure of excellent lubrication and cooling everywhere in the engine. If it is a little below the old rule of thumb, no big deal. But, you are way below. So, I’d make a change, if I were you. Review your bearing clearances, oil pump volume, oil pan design, etc.
4.
Yes, 5W30 Mobil 1’s film strength load carry capability provides very good wear protection. It sounds like you probably have a standard volume oil pump, because of all the oil pressure issues you mention. So, you would likely need a high volume oil pump to support thinner oils like a 5W30. Running thinner oil along with a high volume oil pump is an excellent combination for ideal oil flow, thus ideal lubrication and cooling.
There is nothing at all wrong with running a high volume oil pump. Every engine combo is different, and you need what you need. Those who say you should never run a high volume oil pump are simply wrong. I run a high volume Titan gerotor oil pump, with 5W30 motor oil in my 540 BBC, which has .003 clearance on the rods and mains. I have excellent oil pressure and never have to think about it.
Now a comment about your choice of 15W50 Mobil 1. That oil is too thick for ideal use in almost any engine. See Section 2 – Motor Oil Viscosity Selection, of this Blog for more details on proper motor oil viscosity. On top of that, 15W50 Mobil 1 only ranks 109th out of 143 oils I’ve tested so far. That means that 108 other oils provided better wear protection. So, I would suggest selecting a better and thinner motor oil for your engine.
I hope my answers were helpful.
Take care,
540 RAT
1-24-15
I read “Tech Facts, Not Myths.” I’d like to see more people adopt the repeatable testing methods you employ. Now I’m trying to figure out if I’m starting to get a rough idea of the concepts and results. I’m trying to figure out which oil is best for daily modern car commuting. I see that you use Castrol GTX for your modern cars (I can see why you’d use it over Motul’s based on the expense, but I’m still interested in the results of the testing).
Thinner oils are better. 0 first number oils are available. The lowest second number is 0. Therefore a 0W20 oil should be expected to be the best.
Oils with higher thermal breakdown rating are better. Therefore, the expected highest rated thermal breakdown should be a 0W0 aka 0W oil. But it isn’t. “0W Mobil 1 Racing Oil, synthetic = 210* F, and this is NOT a typo” There were no 0W20 oils listed in the thermal breakdown ranking. The highest ranked in thermal breakdown at 0W30 is Mobil 1, API SN, AFE, synth at 290F (Syntec is also in the list, but it ranks even lower on the wear protection than Mobil 1 AFE synth).
Improvement potential is superior with Oil Extreme Concentrate compared to Prolong Engine Treatment.
Oils with higher wear protection rankings without additives are better. Therefore, one should expect the highest wear protection to belong to an oil without additives. But it doesn’t–the highest wear protection belongs to a relatively heavy oil with the inferior additive that performed 10* F worse than the 0W30 Mobil 1 AFE: “Prolong Engine Treatment added to 5W30 Pennzoil Ultra, API SN synthetic = 136,658 psi.” The highest ranked non-additive oil is the same heavy oil in the top rank, 5W30 Pennzoil Ultra, API SM synthetic (115,612 psi), above Motul 300V Racing Oil. Pennzoil changed the formula, and the wear protection got worse, dropping it about 20 lower in the ranks. It’s a moot point with the oil and is disqualified due to not being in stock (should be removed from the list; it’s trivial now). This puts Motul 300V Racing Oil as the top performer in non-additive oil. One should expect it to do better than Castrol GTX, API SN conventional–it did 5* F better than Castrol’s in thermal breakdown, and Castrol’s is inferior without additives (and is using Prolong, which is inferior to Oil Extreme Concentrate), and additives do not increase performance as well as an oil with a high wear performance starting point. But it didn’t–Motul’s is inferior by 17,902 psi in wear protection, an 8% difference.
It seems to me that the next set of testing should be on the thermal breakdown of a 0W20 oil (manufactured or formulated by Motul, if possible), and run through wear protection testing three times: without additives, with Oil Extreme Concentrate, and with Prolong Engine Treatment.
====================================
Hi Joey,
Thanks for getting in touch. First, I want to make sure you are clear. I do not run Castrol GTX in my modern cars. What I said was, “As for my own cars, I run conventional Castrol GTX or Chevron Supreme in my Old School Hotrods. But, in my new cars, I have to run current synthetics in order to meet all the specs they call for. So, I run Castrol Edge in the gold bottle in those cars.”
We all would like to find an oil that is the best at everything measurable. Unfortunately, that is not usually the case, and we have to settle for some compromises along the way. Typically the best we can do is find an oil that is very good at the things we value most, and use that, even if it is not the best at every single thing.
50 weight multi-viscosity oils are heavy oils, but 30 weight multi-viscosity oils are not heavy oils. 30 weight multi-vicosity oils are generally the best overall choice for most traditional Hotrods and Race cars, because of component clearances typically used in these engines, along with the loads they often are subjected to. Using 20 weight multi-viscosity in these, can sometimes be too thin, resulting in mechanical noises and oil pressure that is just too low.
But, modern car engines often call for 20 weight multi-viscosity oils, because they were designed for thinner oil from the ground up. So, it just depends on what your needs are. And that is what determines the oil viscosity that is the best overall choice for any given engine.
I only provide data on several aftermarket oil additives, so that we can see what they really do, since you cannot always trust their advertising. But, I have no plans to do any additional testing on aftermarket oil additives. Because I don’t generally recommend using them, even if they do in some cases provide wear protection improvements. They add to the costs, which can already be high from just buying the basic oil. And additives can create undesirable changes to an oil’s carefully Engineered additive package. If highly ranked oils are chosen in the first place, they don’t need any help, since they already provide plenty of wear protection on their own, just as they come, right out of the bottle.
Take care,
540 RAT
Hi,
Since this list appeared on the Internet & even before you create this blog for it, I followed the list frequently till now. I tried many top ranked oils in the list myself & I should say; I am impressed. Thank you!
I think I wait enough to see Mobil1 5w50 test result here, which is in my opinion it is a important product in world of motor oils same as Mobil1 0w40.
Also, it would be nice to see Mobil Super Synthetic 5w30 test result as an economical dexos1 licensed oil in the market. Is there any chance to see those results soon? Much appreciated.
================
Hi Khosrow,
I have many other commitments, so my time available for additional motor oil wear testing is very limited. So, the time I can find for additional testing needs to be applied to oil that would be of interest to the most people overall. I will add 5W30 Mobil Super Synthetic to my list of oils to be tested, since it is a good choice regarding viscosity.
I already have test data on 15W50 Mobil, which is currently ranked 109. Maybe that can give you some of the information you are looking for.
But, 50 weight oils in general are really too thick to be used in most engines. See my section on Viscosity Selection to see why. So, testing 5W50 Mobil 1 might not be the best use of limited time available. But, I will see if it is available locally. However, it could be quite some time before I could fit it into the limited testing schedule, since so many other oils are already ahead of it.
Thanks for your interest,
540 RAT
Dear 540 RAT,
Thanks a lot for adding my request for future testing list. Anyhow, I still believing that your list will be more amazing with Mobil1 5W50 test data!
If I want to predict its ranking I would shot somewhere above Mobil1 0w40 till Motorcraft 5W50 ranking number which currently is 15th. In Mobiloil website comprasion page no other oil gets 3 stars for engine protection except 5W50, also on Lexus LFA engine oil cap printed ‘Mobil1 5W50 only’. Thanks for your attention & effort. Great job indeed.
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Hello again,
The way things happened to work out, I was able to fit in the testing of your oils, sooner rather than later. So, they are now posted in this Blog.
Take care,
540 RAT
A side note re the use of the word ” titanium ” in some ads and oil names.
It is pure advertising hype and misleading especially in oils- guess they are trying to say ‘ its strong and light ” or some such.
Having worked with titanium alloys starting in the 1960’s thru the 90’s for aerospace use, I submit the following. While it is good for heat and chemical resistance, titanium is a great friction producing alloy, even in pure form !
Matter of fact, rubbing two pieces of most ti alloys together under pressure results in excellent friction welding. Trying to drill typical common alloys like 6al-4v titanium parts and skins at high speeds typical of aluminum will weld the drill to the part, even with typical lubrication. The cure is to use low speeds and lots of coolant in almost any machining operation.
================
Hi, good to hear from you.
Oil Companies are not trying to say their oil is strong and light because it contains Titanium. They claim the elemental Titanium they use improves wear protection capability. I’ve tested some oils claiming they include Titanium. But, I can’t say if that single element does anything or not, because testing uses the oil as a whole, not just a single component that’s in it. In general, I wouldn’t be concerned if an oil says it includes Titanium. I would just ignore that claim and look at how well it ranked on my list, which is what really matters.
Thanks for getting in touch,
540 RAT
Today update information is awesome! Eye opener test results. I love this blog.
Hi again 540 RAT
I’m interested in buying Amsoil Signature series
I would like to give my car the best wear protection
Have you tested the 5w40 or 5w30 version of the Amsoil Signature series?
Judging from the 8 discussion “8. 0W40 vs 5W30 vs 0W30”
It looks like that 5W30 should have better wear protection than 0W30，right?
If so，what about 5w40?
Thank you in advance
==================================
Hello again,
All the test data I have available, is shown in this Blog. I show the results that came out of the testing that was performed. So, I do not guess on, what other oils may or may not do. Because the test results are often surprising. If you do not see a certain oil in this Blog, I have no opinion on it.
Take care,
540 RAT
Please test a 20-50 Motorcycle oil
=====================
Hi Andy,
I already have. 20W50 Mobil 1 V-Twin 4 Cycle Motorcycle Oil, API SJ, ranks 91 on my list. There are also other motorcycle oils of different viscosities that are on my ranking list. 20W50 is generally too thick to be ideal for any engine, including motorcycle engines. See Section 2 – Motor Oil Viscosity Selection.
540 RAT
Hey 540 RAT.
Great read and education for me. Talked alot about in the forums. I would like to run the M1 0-40 euro spec in my supercharged CTS-V. Wondering how it would peform with prolong or extreme oil additives?
Currently running M1 5-30, no additives.
Any chance you could test it?
Thanks for the great work!
Mike in hot AZ.
=================
Hi Mike, good to hear from you.
The only reason I tested some aftermarket additives, was just to see if they really did what they claimed. As you’ve seen in my Blog, some do and some don’t. But, just because I tested some, that does not mean that I recommend using aftermarket additives. Even though some aftermarket additives may help with an oil’s wear protection capability, there can also be some other downstream unintended consequences, since the original carefully balanced additive package would be changed, if aftermarket additives are added to the oil.
So, I recommend that highly ranked oils are chosen in the first place, and that they are used just as they come, right out of the bottle. Highly ranked oils do not need any help.
M1 0-40 euro spec ranks 74th on my ranking list, while M1 5-30 with no additives, ranks 10th. It’s a no-brainer to stay with M1 5-30 with no additives, so that’s what I suggest you do.
I have no plans to perform any additional aftermarket additive tests, since as I mentioned, it is best to use highly ranked oils in the first place.
Take care,
540 RAT
Hi 540Rat,
I was wondering how does your testing fit into the HTHS testing? As I see that your testing shows that Mobil 1 5w30 has a higher film strength then Mobil 1 0w40 but the HTHS rating is lower on the 5w30. I also found out the reason that Mercedes does not recommend the Mobil 1 5w30 is not because of the zinc/additives but but because of the HTHS rating of a oil. I also read and saw pictures about how HTHS rating is very important for protecting your engine. Please let me know what your thoughts are on your testing compared to how important the HTHS test is too.
thanks,
pchobby
==============
Hi, thanks for getting in touch.
My Motor Oil Wear Protection testing and HTHS testing don’t fit together at all. That is probably why you were wondering. My test data provides information on how capable various motor oils are at providing protection against wear, at normal operating temperatures.
As I’m sure you know, HTHS test data provides information on how capable various motor oils are at maintaining their viscosity under high heat and high stress conditions. But, that HTHS viscosity data provides no information at all regarding wear protection. Because a motor oil’s viscosity DOES NOT determine its wear protection capability. A lot of people are completely mistaken when they believe that it does. I’ve seen on some Forums where people argue back and forth about HTHS values and how they indicate an oil’s wear protection capability. But, that is completely FALSE.
Here are some FACTS that came directly out of the Engineering tests I perform on motor oil.
20 wt oils rank between number 22 and 140
30 wt oils rank between number 1 and 151
40 wt oils rank between number 45 and 139
50 wt oils rank between number 15 and 148
So, as you can see, oil viscosity itself plays no particular role in an oil’s wear protection capability. An oil’s wear protection capability is determined by its base oil and its additive package “as a whole”, with the primary emphasis on the additive package, which contains the extreme pressure anti-wear components, which has nothing to do with viscosity.
Any HTHS values used as a comparison for wear protection, DO NOT reliably tell you anything. The extreme pressure anti-wear components from the additive package are what really determine wear protection, NOT those HTHS values. People often do not understand this, which is why they get the wrong idea about HTHS values.
The oils I have ranked, were all tested at a representative 230*F operating temperature.
But, I have also tested various motor oils at 275*F as well as 325*F. What I found was that going from 230*F to 275*F, the wear protection capability of the oils tested, dropped by only about 12% on average. I also found that going from 275*F to 325*F, their wear protection capability leveled off and stayed about the same. In addition to that, I found that even at these elevated temperatures, there was no significant change in ranking order. And this proves that my normal test data which comes from 230*F, is valid even at much higher temperatures.
I also tested a number of used oils with 5,000 miles on them. And found that there was no loss of wear protection capability.
At the end of the day, the most important thing a motor oil does, is protect an engine against wear. Everything else it does, comes AFTER that. Personally, I don’t sweat much over HTHS values, because my film strength/load carrying capability values are really all that provides useful information regarding wear protection capability.
Take care,
540 RAT
Hi Rat540 Thanks for all the time and effort trying to give us this very useful information about film strength (that can’t be found anywhere else, specially that every oil company claims their every product is best). And also to prove that only high (zi/ph) level doesn’t matter as much as base oil quality. I know U made lots of enemies by publishing the list. But U also made lots of friends that believe in facts not myths. There still is a gray area, when testing ( brand-A low zink. Vs brand-B high zink), even though it proves which brand had better film strength doesn’t prove it was due to low or high zink content in that package, what if a good base oil had higher level of zink formulated in it from factory by their chemical engineers. I think this could be true, also could be false, but how to determine which? Maybe identical weight/grade (conventional/ synthetic) oils with different levels of zink from same brand need to be tested agains each other to have a better perspective? I really don’t know many oils that have similar base with different zink levels from same brand ( because most brands don’t really publish that info), the only one I have seen published by company is on Mobil1 site where they have approximate ppm zi/ph levels in a chart. They have 5w20, 5w30, 10w30, listed as high mileage with 1000/1100 ph/zn ppm level and same weights with 800/900 ph/zi ppm levels, these oils should be closest in base oil since I don’t think they will try making new base oil for same weights, but I could be wrong, I also know they might have added some seal improvers in high mileage version, but still will be the closest products to compare, what is your opinion? (I really do know how much time and money & effort U have and R dedicating into your tests) keep up the awesome work, thanks again.
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Hi, it’s good to hear from you. Thanks for the kind words, I really appreciate that.
We don’t really care how much zinc an oil has, because zinc level alone DOES NOT determine an oil’s wear protection capability. An oil’s wear protection capability is determined by its base oil and its additive package “as a whole”, with the primary emphasis on the additive package, which contains the extreme pressure anti-wear components.
Keep in mind that using zinc as the primary extreme pressure anti-wear component is outdated technology. Newer extreme pressure anti-wear components are equal to or better than zinc. And that is why some newer low zinc oils outperform some older high zinc oils.
The only thing that matters is how an oil’s overall formulation performs in my wear protection capability testing, no matter how much zinc is in it. So, all we have to do is look at the Ranking List to see how the various oils compare.
Take care,
540 RAT
I see
I especially would like to know which viscosity of Amsoil signature series have the best wear protection
Would you happen to know which one?
If not, I would really appreciate it if you can test them (since Amsoil have a more complete viscosity series，plus it’s relatively cheap with the protection it provides)
Also, it can prove your 8th discussion even more
^.^
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I have a couple more oils that I will be testing very soon. But after that, I have too many other commitments, to take on that much additional oil testing. For what it’s worth, all the Amsoil products I have tested, have performed very well. So, you would not go wrong selecting any of their viscosities.
540 RAT
And thank you VERY MUCH
for all the time and effort you input to try to give us this very useful information!!
^.^
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You are welcome. I’m glad to hear that you find the information very useful.
540 RAT
Hey , Rat ..I noticed that Valvoline Oil does well in the wear tests . Would be interested seeing how the Valvoline MaxLife oil performs . That’s what I use because of my high miles car ( 120,000 miles )..I know this is a popular oil. Thanks
======================
Hi Jon,
I’m not taking on any additional oils for testing right now, because of other commitments. But, I made a note of an interest in Valvoline MaxLife for future testing.
Thanks for getting in touch,
540 RAT
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Hi again Jon,
I got an opening in my schedule, so I was able to fit in testing of the oil you requested. So, I tested 5W30 Valvoline MaxLife, High Mileage, API SN, synthetic blend. Here are the results:
The Wear protection reference categories are:
• Over 105,000 psi = INCREDIBLE wear protection
• 90,000 to 105,000 psi = OUTSTANDING wear protection
• 75,000 to 90,000 psi = GOOD wear protection
• 60,000 to 75,000 psi = MODEST wear protection
• Below 60,000 psi = UNDESIRABLE wear protection
5W30 Valvoline MaxLife, High Mileage, API SN, synthetic blend = 108,045 psi = INCREDIBLE wear protection
This oil performed so well, that it is now the best performing Valvoline oil I have ever tested. I will eventually add it to my Wear Protection Ranking List, when I get a few other oils to add along with this one.
Take care,
540 RAT
5-10-15
Yes it’s noticeable, hence thanks again to you for spending your time on giving us these very valuable information.
By the way, are YAMALUBE, REPSOL, and SHELL’s oil in your next-to-test-oil list?
Would really appreciate it if you can test them because
in the case of Yamaha, they would only provide warranty if you use YAMALUBE; they believe that only their own oil provide best wear protection…
And in the case of REPSOL and SHELL, my friends and including me, found out that after using REPSOL CARRERA and SHELL ULTRA HELIX on different 4T engines, they all end up terribly wore off (lots of engine oil “consumed”).
We would like to know if experimental data conforms with what we observe.
We would really appreciate it if you can help us out
Thanks in advance!
==========================
Hello again,
YAMALUBE, REPSOL CARRERA and SHELL ULTRA HELIX were not on my next-to-test-oil list. I’m not familiar with those oils, so I’m not even sure if they are all available in the USA. Plus, you’d have to be more specific as to which ones have caused trouble, such as the viscosity involved for each one. You’ve never said where you are located. If you would like to send me one brand new unopened quart or liter bottle of each one you’d like to have tested, I could put them in-line for future testing, when I have time to get back to additional motor oil testing.
Thanks for your interest,
540 RAT
Hey Rat, lots of good Data here, truly appreciate all your hard work… I read that you don’t plan to test any more additives so chances are I’m outta luck but thought it wouldn’t hurt to throw it out there.. I’ve got about 3.5 cases of the old GM EOS which I’ve been adding 1/2 bottle of at every oil change…. If you have any interest I’d be happy to supply you a bottle or two for your testing…
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Hi Randy,
Good to hear from you, and I’m glad you like the data I provide.
I already have some GM EOS on hand, though it may not be the OLD version you are talking about. Mine is several years old, and may or may not be what you are calling OLD. EOS supposedly alters the zinc content of motor oil, though I have not personally verified that. But, more than anything, EOS is a bit of an oil viscosity thickener, especially when used in the thinner motor oils. And thickening your oil is one of the worst things you can do for your engine. See my Section 2- Motor Oil Viscosity Selection, for more details on that.
You are correct, I have no plans to test anymore aftermarket oil additives for wear protection changes, especially not any oil viscosity thickeners. Because they take motor oil in the WRONG direction for protecting your engine, due to oil flow reduction. You can read more about all that, as I said above, by looking at Section 2.
And if oil thickeners are not bad enough already, they can increase oil foaming, which if bad enough, can destroy your engine, and leave no indication as to what caused the failure, because by the time you tear the engine down to investigate, the foam/bubbles have dissipated.
I have future oil foam testing planned, which will include oil thickeners STP and Lucas Oil Treatments, in addition to oils just as they come out of the bottle. But, here’s what I’ll do regarding GM EOS. I’ll add it to my foam testing, to add that to the data that comes out of all those tests.
In the meantime, I’d suggest you stop adding EOS to your motor oil, to avoid any downstream unintended consequences. And instead, choose a highly ranked oil from my wear protection ranking list, no matter how much zinc it has. Highly ranked oils are plenty good enough all by themselves and don’t need any help.
Thanks for getting in touch,
540 RAT
Hi Rat,
I´m from Germany and was searching an oil for my C6 Z06 and I found purely accidentally your page, fortunately.
After reading your side I decided to use the 5W30 Mobil 1 oil.
But there are so many different:Extended Performance, Advanced Fuel Economy, High Mileage, ESP Formula, Racing, …
Which one do you tested (10. place)
And sorry for my bad English.
Best regards
Daniel
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Hi Daniel, it’s good to hear from someone over there. Your English is fine. The Mobil 1 you are asking about, was the standard Mobil 1, that has no other name attached to it. I’m not sure if you will be able to find the exact same product in Germany, that is sold in the USA that I tested. But, if you can find that exact same one, it should serve you well.
Thanks for getting in touch,
540 RAT
Thank you very much for fast answering. Here in Germany the same wildest myths circulating through forums .
I imagined that it´s the standard one. Here in Germany you get only the Mobil 1 ESP.
So I don´t know if this oil (Mobil1 ESP 5W-30) has the same wear protection like the standard Mobil 1 5w-30 ?!
The companies use different packing of the products in the different countries, so it makes very difficult to compare them.
One question I have after I read all this information. Maybe it´s not as easy to answer.
You said, the motor oil “Dynamic Wear Testing Under Load”, is worst case torture testing and subjects the oil to far more severe loading than even the most wicked flat tappet race engine ever could.
I am aware that it is the best to use the oil with the most psi result. But do I really need it?
Or can I have a easy conscience with an oil with 70 psi test result?
Best regards
Daniel
====================
Hi again Daniel,
You may not need the absolute best oil on the market. It all depends on many factors such as, the type of engine, how heavily loaded the components are, is it a daily driver engine, is it a Hotrod engine, is it a Race Car engine, how the engine is driven, how much rpm it is subjected to, the quality of the components in the engine, how well the engine was built, etc, etc.
The safest plan of course is to select the highest rated motor oil you can find and afford. That way you will have the highest amount of reserve wear protection, or margin of safety as it is also called. But, if you select a lower performing motor oil, that means its reserve wear protection capability will be less. Will it be enough if the engine experiences some type of difficulty that requires extra protection to avoid wear or damage? That is the million dollar question.
Only you can make the decision as to how much wear protection capability you are comfortable with, for your particular application. Being an Engineer, I like a high margin of safety, so I generally stay above 90,000 psi, for the oils I use in my own engines, even if I don’t always need that much capability. Better safe than sorry, is how I look at it. But of course, everyone will have their own idea about that.
Take care,
540 RAT
You are a star, you should win the lottery, see God, or have karma that you can sell. I work at the Warren MI.GM Tech Center and have top Ph D’s that I can banter with at any time and use their muscle to my advantage. (as long as they are not in a meeting) I am a gear head and have a new Stingray that I want to spank, and PM it with the best. I would pay 300 per year for oil if my motor to last 500k. (just dreaming) 10 years ago Motorkote was tested for me on a dry aluminum plater so dry protection was obvious. 5 yrs later I know excessive zinc is bad for converter. Went to 25k Asmoil for all my cars, used 0w instead of 5w for 20 and 30 cars. At 3k, change pourlator filter to pure one, at 6k back to base pure filter, at 9k pure one dump oil at 12k.
See my logic Pureone is at 20 microns but it will plug with carbon blow by 3k. You have saved me a good amount of money not buying “snake oil”! Until Mobil 1 changes their formula to allow some CEO to buy a bigger house in Martha’s Vineyard that is my oil. Not extended, (15k), Amsoil, or other re-bottled stuff that some future millionaire that is selling from his Mom’s basement!
Will splash of Prolong (1oz per qt.) help get longer life on Mobil 1 5w30w dextros? I just bought 32oz at 33 bucks total. Will 2oz be better, your call, I want to stay in Kansas with realality. All “does guyesis” that helped me for so long have gotten your info from me about you. You got pay back helps, Tadge has not been forced to see your specs but he will. I have a hobby that I love, and all my customers know I will fix them now! My Vette was built “of special interest” I am your Heating and Cooling Guy. Thanks 540, Mark
===============
Hello there, it’s good to hear from you.
The concern about the potential for damaging bearing corrosion, prevents me from ever using Prolong. I’ve pointed out the caution about that, where I have written about Prolong. I recommend not using any aftermarket additives at all, to prevent unintended consequences downstream. I only tested a handful of aftermarket additives, some of which I received requests for, to see what they really do relative to wear protection. So, my recommendation to everyone is to choose a highly ranked oil from my Ranking List and use it straight out of the bottle with no aftermarket additives at all. Good oils don’t need any help.
Take care,
540 RAT
I Hate bug you again, but did not some of your tests show that Prolong increased psi? For a little extra cents might a splash or half of recommended, give me a little extra insurance? Thanks 540, Mark
==============
Hi again,
Prolong did a good job of increasing the psi values in my testing. However, there is a concern about the chlorine in Prolong possibly causing damaging bearing corrosion. It might or it might not, depending on how compatible it is with your oil’s additive package. It is a risk that I don’t believe is worth it. If you select a highly ranked oil from my Ranking List, you will be in good shape without the risk. If you use Prolong and ruin your bearings, you will not be happy. I’ve made you aware of the possible problem. If you choose to use Prolong anyway, at least you knew the potential for the problem before trying it. Your call. The test data on Prolong is included in my Oil Test Data Blog for informational purposes only. I do not endorse nor recommend its use.
540 RAT
Hey , Rat
Thanks for testing Max -Life . I was really surprised that the synthetic blend scored so high . Thanks again for taking the time ..
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You are welcome Jon. I was surprised also, that the Valvoline 5W30 MaxLife High Mileage performed so well. I always check and adjust if needed, the calibration of my test equipment each time I test a different oil, to keep the results accurate. I also perform multiple tests on each oil, then average those values to arrive at the most accurate and representative value that I post for comparison. The day I tested MaxLife, I also tested two other oils. Those other oils repeatedly and consistently tested at much lower values than MaxLife. But, MaxLife repeatedly and consistently tested very well. The results simply are what they are. Who knew that Valvoline would formulate MaxLife to be such an incredible oil?
540 RAT
Hi RAT, I want to share a real world experience about one of oils U have tested,
About a year ago , my son was driving our old Camry in heat of summer, and u know how young kids R today, they don’t know very much about how to look after cars . So he drives about 45 miles to destination , and parks. by this time because of a leak from water pump most of coolant is gone, but because he shuts engine off and walks away unnoticed, engine cools off. Next day when he wants to drive home, there is no coolant left in engine, he starts it up and starts driving after 28-30 miles in fwy, it overheats so much that engine stops, that’s when I get the call!
After I towed car home, I filled radiator and noticed leak from water pump , and head gasket leaking into combustion chamber, so I knew it over heated really bad, & twice, and pistons and valves must have been damaged due to extreme heat, after I took the head off , valves & cylinder walls looked in surprisingly good shape , and after I put it back together , it ran as good as before.
I then knew , the oil that was in it at the time, played very important role , and it prevented the pistons from damage, BUT that oil wasn’t in your ranking at the time, so I allways wondered where would it stand if ever tested?
Guess what, now that U have tested it, it Ranked on the very top, it is 5w30 Valvoline Max life.(red bottle)
So if anyone doesn’t want to believe in your oil test ranking, I have to tell them they better believe it, I am positive that it was the high protection of that motor oil that kept the engine from further damage!!
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Hi there. Thanks for getting in touch and sharing your story. I really appreciate the feedback. It provides additional validation of my test data.
Thanks again,
540 RAT
Forgot sorry.
99 toyota Camry 230k miles, when it happened.
Now 244k ,
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OK, thanks.
Your experience was such good information, that I’ve added it to the text of my Blog.
Thanks again for your contribution.
540 RAT